Reply to If Jesus wasn’t a real historical figure, where did Christian theology come from?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Without wading through 37 pages of stuff, is there anyone (Christian, Jew, atheist or otherwise) who doesn't believe Jesus was a historical figure?[/quote]

I don’t know if he - or if he didn’t.

No evidence.

Seems likely, but we don’t know definitively. 
[/quote]

I think you're confusing "evidence" with "evidence that's totally convincing." The letters of Paul are evidence, the Gospels are evidence, the non-controversial reference to Jesus in Josephus is evidence, as are the references in Pliny and Tacitus. It's likely that none of them are first hand evidence, but "someone told me a Jewish teacher named Jesus existed and was crucified" suggests that it is likely that such a man did exist. Even in a court of law, hearsay IS evidence, it's just not generally admissible evidence. There's evidence, even if it's not conclusive evidence.[/quote]

DP here, and you are correct that the evidence is not totally convincing.

- Using the bible as evidence that the bible is true is begging the question.

- Josephus is widely considered a forgery: https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/7437

- Pliny and Tacitus were around a century after Jesus, not contemporaneous.

[/quote]

There's two references to Jesus in Josephus; only one is widely considered a forgery, that's the Testimonium Flavianum mentioned in your link. The other the passage referring to the trial and stoning of the "brother of Jesus, who was called Christ, whose name was James." That passage is widely regarded as genuine. That's why I specified the "the non-controversial reference to Jesus in Josephus"

The question also isn't "is the Bible true" the question is "did Jesus exist." That people, shortly after his lifetime, thought he existed is evidence of that. If I tell you "my grandfather's name was Wilson" you've got evidence that that is true. I never met the man and he's been dead about as long as the time between the death of Jesus and the writing of the Gospels. It's hearsay and  you might not find it convincing, but if you said "there's no evidence PP's grandfather was named Wilson" you'd be wrong. [/quote]

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