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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Eh. Democrats have wanted to racially gerrymander for perceived political advantage.

There are obvious, race neutral ways to get rid of gerrymandering.

Call me when someone starts pushing that option. [/quote]

Is it race neutral what the southern red states are doing now? Eliminating black representation out of proportion to population?[/quote]

Look, the very first thing Any Klobuchar’s anti-gerrymandering bill did was protect VRA mandated gerrymandered districts.

If people are being serious about eliminating gerrymandering, just mandate that state-level HoR delegations are allocated by party vote at the state level. Thus, if Alabama votes 60/40 Republican/Democrat, then the state delegation is proportionally 60/40. Inverse the proportions for Massachusetts.

1.  You would need to figure out rounding.

2.  This clearly preserves the INTENT of the VRA in a race neutral way.

3.  This clearly protects the Constitutional allocation system that gives the smaller states marginally more weighted representation.

4.  Bonus: this would actually make electoral fights about courting and moving voters in the middle, not the extremes.

I’m some random dude on the internet.  If I can figure this out, then certainly the people in Congress have already figured it out. But they aren’t pushing for this solution because everybody is just trying to maximize partisan advantage in their own way. [/quote]

Yes, the people in Congress have figured it out. The problem is the GOP like having their built in advantages and are not interested in fairness or anything having to do with a functioning democracy (or republic)[/quote]

Yes, the second clause of Klobucher’s preserving VRA mandated racial gerrymandering was just a just a happy coincidence, right?

This isn’t a GOP or Dems as-the-bad-guy issue. They are both doing it for partisan advantage. If you really want to get rid of gerrymandering then do it in a race neutral manner. [/quote]

Why are white ppl such whiny bi---ches? The VRA portions you cite were to combat racism in voting, as a result of Jim Crow and related era practices. It was to REMEDY racism. So stop acting like Dems wanted this out of thin air just to be racist.

What's happening now is not "race neutral" and if you look at the states that voted against the VRA, it's all of the deep south, jim crow states.[/quote]

First, I’m not white.

Second, the VRA obviously creates a structural advantage for groups as one group gets beneficial gerrymandering. If you outlaw all other forms of gerrymandering while mandating a very specific kind of gerrymandering, you are obviously (a) intentionally advantaging one group over another and (b) undermining your own claims about wanting to do away with the evil of gerrymandering.

If you sincerely want fair elections and to do away with gerrymandering, there are easy, race neutral methods that allow you to preserve exactly what you purport you want to do with the VRA and simultaneously ban gerrymandering. Instead, the proposed solution amounts to “gerrymandering for me, but not for thee.”

If you can’t understand the obvious structural problem you are creating, you are a lost cause. [/quote]

I didn't say YOU were white but that is the sentiment of many white people. Moreover, IDGAF what your race is.

The fact your claiming that the VRA creates a structural advantage for a historically disadvantaged group, ignoring the reason the VRA existed, AND ignoring the intentional structural advantages that will result from the gerrymandering in the way that the southern states are doing it -giving whites a structural advantage for a generation- tells me a few things. You're a partisan hack. You are deliberately twisting the situation.

Youre entire last paragraph is a joke and is EXACTLY what LA, AL, TX, TN and others are doing. So you oppose that, right?[/quote]

2024:

Massachusetts 
Harris: 61.3%
Trump: 36.5%
HoR delegation
Dem: 9
GOP: 0

Alabama:
Harris: 34.10%
Trump: 64.5%
Dem: 2
GOP: 5

Every state, even those using purportedly non-partisan commissions is gerrymandering structurally advantaged maps for the dominant party.

You cannot possibly expect one side to unilaterally disarm, especially when the other side is preserving its structural advantage.

What is insane here is that you are avoiding my point:  my proposal gives you 95% of what you claim to want out of the VRA. You can design a race neutral system that preserves minority voting power in the Deep South, but instead you seem to be fighting it because it would lead to more fair elections nationwide rather than ensuring what you seem to really want: a system that ensures your side wins. [/quote]

DP.  No gerrymandering at all.  That's the answer.  Who said anything about only one side "disarming".  Interesting that you would use that term.

There should be no gerrymandering.  The number of reps from each party from a given state should represent the percentages of people from a given party in each state.  Representation.

Stop blathering.[/quote]

Try to keep up.

1.  Amy Klobuchar introduces anti-gerrymandering bill in Senate.

2.  Bill bans gerrymandering on face, but then mandates that VRA-required gerrymandering be respected, thus creating a structural advantage for one side.

3.  Dems vote for it, GOP does not.

4.  People like you pounce, paraphrasing: "see, GOP is anti-democracy".

5.  People like me:  "hey, we can actually create an anti-gerrymandering construct that is race neutral, fair, and preserves what the VRA is supposed to do.  The number of reps from each party from a given state should represent the percentages of people from a given party in each state.  Representation."

6.  People like you:  "stop blathering".[/quote]

Why are you sock puppeting and coming back to every post with the same standard lines?

You'r e a joke. And a moronic one who has little sense of history and the purpose of the VRA, why it was needed, and how it worked.

Further, if the bill was not to R's liking they could negotiate a better one or find a compromise. A novel concept for today's GOP. But, no, they do what they always do and obstruct.

GOP is absolutely anti-democracy. Look what they've done mid-cycle in red states. Look what they're doing now post-scotus. Declaring a "state of emergency" to change primaries 6 months before election day. Look at the election results denial, despite being turned down in the courts time and again. Look at the attempts to undermine mail in voting. Look at attempts to restrict student voting. Look at the GOP supporting the absurd SAVE Act. Trump demanded GA find him more votes. And they the crowning jewel of the GOP's anti-democratic soul: insurrection and trying to violently change a democratic election. And all of this despite no evidence of significant voter fraud.

So yeah, that cheating. That's anti-democracy. GOP cannot win without cheating and they prove that time and again.[/quote]

Forgot to add Trump seizing voting machines, voting rolls, and GOP purging voters from rolls.[/quote]

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