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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]"Antizionism is not antisemitism" I was out last night with a Jewish friend who quit her job at a university in 2023 - 24 due to the fear protests on her campus stirred up for her.

In talking to her last night, it suddenly clicked to me that some Jewish people view any protest against Israeli action as a call to eliminate Israel (antizionism). Some then connect antizionism to antisemitism because they are convinced the existence of Israeli is fundamentally tied to their own existence.  Hence, to them, criticism of Israel (antizionism) is equivalent to killing/eliminating Jews.

It's a math problem where they simplify the equation from:

criticism of Israel = antizionism = antisemitism = death to Jews

to:

criticism of Israel = death to Jews

I wonder if the problem is the emphasis that Jewish practice and culture place on Israel as a geographic location. The Torah emphasizes the importance of Israel for Jewish existence and Rabbis in their sermons constantly refer to Israel, the rebuilding of the Temple, etc. And Passover is a holiday dedicated to memorializing the creation of Isreal as a fixed place, not just a concept or set of ideas/rules to live by.

Are other religions are as geographically tied to physical regions of the world? For example, while Catholics hold the Pope and Vatican holy, I don't think Priests in South American don't constantly tell their congregation tales about the glories of Italy? Or, while Hindus hold Varanasi and the Ganges holy (and many visit or want their ashes released there after death), I think the emphasis is on encouraging visiting but not resettling.

[/quote]

I can’t believe this person calls you a friend. This is some absurd minimizing/gaslighting BS. I’ll preface this by saying I don’t agree at all with what Trump is doing wrt universities, but please put yourself in the shoes of a Jewish person on, say, the Columbia campus:

-Day after day after day for MONTHS you walk to class and hear protestors chant things like “globalize the intifada,” "Al-Qassam you make us proud, kill another soldier now!" “we are Hamas,” and “Jews go back to Europe/Poland"
-One of your Jewish professors has her office vandalized with swastikas: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/11/29/us/swastika-vandalism-columbia-university. 
-Another professor, who is somehow STILL EMPLOYED by Columbia openly calls October 7 a "resistance offensive" and "awesome.”
-a Jewish student who places a mezuza (Jewish religious symbol) on her dorm's doorway is targeted for months, leading her to leave the dorm
-Another Jewish student is spat at for wearing a Jewish head covering
-Three DEANS of the university, again still employed, attend a panel ON ANTISEMITISM and exchange antisemitic text messages there, such as “Amazing what $$$$ can do'' in reference to an op-ed on antisemitism by a campus rabbi.
-Yet another professor says Israeli students should not be allowed on campus because they are dangerous.

It does not take three steps to get from any of the above to antisemitism. All of the above is blatantly antisemitic. 
No Jew/Zionist I know (and I know many) thinks any and all criticism of Israel is antisemitic. That is an idea constantly trotted out to silence Jews and minimize their legitimate concerns, like you are currently doing.

“They are convinced the existence of Israeli is fundamentally tied to their own existence.” Ma’am, seven million Jews, half the world’s Jewish population, DOES IN FACT live in Israel. The destruction of the state would result in a lot of those Jews ending up refugees or dead. That’s not like, a conspiracy theory your “friend” cooked up in her head. JFC.
[/quote]

I’ve not been part of this particular exchange, but the shoes you describe a Jewish student walking in at Columbia are exaggerated. And your “tale of the tape” is also obnoxiously one-sided in that it somehow fails to mention any of the hateful Zionist rhetoric, threats, and physical attacks that have also occurred on that campus over the past few years.

But what’s most appalling in your post is this …

[b]The destruction of the state would result in a lot of those Jews ending up refugees or dead.[/b]

Have you literally no idea how ironic this comes across to those of us living in reality ? To those of us who are aware that what’s bolder above is PRECISELY the origin story of the State of Israel, albeit with the native, indigenous population dealing with that awful fate for the past 75 years?

I’m for an outcome that allows both Israelis and Palestinians to live in peace. Israel never should have been allowed to declare its independence because the world should never have allowed anyone to believe that safety can only be found in one already occupied strip of land. But the time to litigate that fact has passed, so the direction forward is to impose peaceful co-existence on both sides. If the U.S. can one day shed its clear and sustained bias in the matter, perhaps we can help lead both sides to that path.[/quote]

Oh please. Spare me. “the shoes you describe a Jewish student walking in at Columbia are exaggerated.” Ok, what’s your evidence for that? All of the incidents I mentioned are well-documented, many on video.

“fails to mention any of the hateful Zionist rhetoric, threats, and physical attacks that have also occurred on that campus.” Ok, what’s your evidence for that? Literally anyone with eyes can see that, even if there are isolated examples of this, they don’t rise to anywhere NEAR what the encampments have unleashed on Jewish students.

“Have you literally no idea how ironic this comes across to those of us living in reality ? To those of us who are aware that what’s bolder above is PRECISELY the origin story of the State of Israel …” Let’s forget for a moment that Palestinians were not the only ones killed/displaced (roughly the same number of Jews, 800,000, were expelled from middle eastern countries. My parents included). Palestinians were killed/made refugees in 1948 so Jews should be killed/made refugees now? You would mock someone for not wanting that outcome?

I agree with you that peaceful co-existence is the only way forward, so at least there’s that.

[/quote]

I disagree.  When one side is dedicated to the destruction of the other, peace is not an option over the long run.[/quote]

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