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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Wouldn't "justice" happen when that student appeals to the professor's superiors and gets a grade change and the teacher is chastised or fired for grading like that?[/quote]

Indeed.  But that would involve a...Higher Authority.  ;)[/quote

I think atheists believe that people have employers.  And that countries have laws and police forces and jails.[/quote]

PPs are still thinking in terms of justice that involve the legal system, or other closed systems.  But a great deal of human behavior falls outside of the authority of these systems.  And even within these systems, injustice persists.  I think this is self-evident, but I will give one small example.

Recently, the Post published a lengthy story about a man who had been falsely accused of child molestation.  The story detailed how his life had been destroyed by the accusations, and the process of clearing his name, which continues.  He lost his job, his income, the respect of friends and neighbors, all the time and anguish and worry and humiliation...his entire life would never be the same.  And he was innocent, completely innocent.

If materialism is right, and this material universe is all that there is, that injustice is permanent and total.  His one shot at life was messed up.  There is no way to undo it.  It happened in time and space.  It is what it is.  Even with all the safeguards our society has in place, injustice will happen, on matters large and small.

So we are back here again:

Humans seek justice (through the legal system, through their own work making the world a better place).

But there is great injustice in this life. (Despite our best efforts, evil does well and good suffers.)

So justice cannot be found in this life.

Either #1 justice is found in something beyond this life, or #2  justice is simply not met by reality.

Unbelievers reject #1.   The material world is all there is.

Then they fall into two camps on #2.  There are the very depressing SOL unbelievers who say, yep!  No such thing as actual, ultimate, perfect justice.  You'd need God for that, and that's just wishful thinking.  Sucks, doesn't it?

Then there are the hopeful nonbelievers who say, look, it's OK, we can make our own justice here, in this life.  We can have social contracts and base them on reason.  We can show people the benefits of being nice to one another, honoring our promises, and telling the truth.  And we can do all this on our own.  There are no ultimate standards, but the ones we come up with will be excellent, because we are smart and of good will for our fellow man.

I am trying to detail the problems with the second line of thinking.

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