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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Academics, scholars, historians, and professors in relevant fields overwhelmingly agree that Jesus was a real historical figure who lived in first-century Judea, and this consensus is so strong that professionals in the discipline do not seriously doubt his existence.

A very small number of individuals—often generously termed “independent” researchers despite typically lacking formal academic credentials in relevant fields, affiliation with established institutions, or publication in peer-reviewed journals—propose that Jesus was entirely mythical, perhaps derived from earlier legends or invented wholesale.

In professional circles, such views are not taken seriously.

From comprehensive lists and discussions in scholarly sources (including Wikipedia’s compilation of proponents, academic reviews, and blogs by both supporters and critics), the number of notable individuals who have publicly advocated for a purely mythical Jesus in modern times (post-1900) appears to be in the range of 10 to 30, depending on how strictly one defines “historian” or “independent researcher” and full endorsement of mythicism.
activists).

This is an educated guesstimate: likely fewer than 20 living individuals who fit the “independent historian/researcher” description and actively promote the full Christ myth theory today. The vast majority operate outside peer-reviewed academia, via blogs, self-published books, or online platforms, which is why they’re often described (even generously) as fringe. No formal census exists, and the group is tiny compared to the thousands of scholars who accept a historical Jesus as the consensus view.

A reasonable guesstimate is that several thousand (likely 5,000–10,000 or more) qualified academics, historians, and professors in relevant disciplines worldwide accept the historical existence of Jesus as the mainstream position. This consensus spans believers, agnostics, atheists, and non-Christians alike, and has been the standard view in professional scholarship for over a century. The tiny minority who reject it entirely are not representative of the field.[/quote]

Less than 20 vs 5,000-10,000.

That’s quite a difference.[/quote]

And 0 actual historians.

10,000 bible scholars believe the bible. Shocker. 
[/quote]

So the only real historians who know the truth are who? Name them so people can read their writings and research and evaluate for themselves.

Are you going to keep their names and the real truth hidden? Why would you do that?[/quote]

Real [u]historians[/u] study history, not the bible.

I don't start with the predetermined answer and then look for "experts" who support it.

Start with real historians and see what they say. Any of them even bother with historicity? Maybe not worth their time since there is no evidence.

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Ok, give me a list of real historians and I will see what they say.[/quote]

Pick any history department in any university - not the theology dept. 
[/quote]

Virtually all professional historians and scholars of antiquity accept that Jesus of Nazareth was a historical person who lived in the 1st century AD. The idea that he never existed is treated as a fringe or “mythicist” position outside mainstream scholarship.

Michael Grant (a classicist) states that "In recent years, 'no serious scholar has ventured to postulate the non-historicity of Jesus' or at any rate very few, and they have not succeeded in disposing of the much stronger, indeed very abundant, evidence to the contrary." in Jesus: An Historian's Review of the Gospels by Michael Grant (2004) ISBN 1898799881 p. 200
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Every time you say Jesus was a real person, I'll say "So What? That doesn't mean he's God."

Still, I don't think you get it or even want to get it.  Instead, you like to think that the more experts say that Jesus was a real person, and the more you write about it here, the more likely it is that Jesus is God.[/quote]

Jesus the real guy vs Jesus the Divine Son of God is a separate discussion.

I can separate the topics, you cannot.

You are welcome to keep trying to meld the topics but it’s pointless because if you read the thread title you’d see this is a discussion based on historical data. No one here has tried to argue about divinity or the existence of God and that Jesus was his Son.

If you wish to keep commenting in this manner, that’s your choice. I don’t want to thread jack and you do. [/quote]

💯 No need to refer to fairies and goblins. [/quote]

It's not needed, but it is entertaining to see how upset believers get when you aptly compare God or Jesus with fairies, goblins, Santa, the tooth fairy or anything else kids believe in and adults don't.[/quote]

I am not upset started out being annoyed the topic of historicity keep getting confounded with divinity.

BTW I never believed in anything but the silver dollars my parents left under the pillow. [/quote]

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