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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP here, good morning!  I hear crickets chirping...what is going on?  Perhaps I am only listening to myself talk at this point, but I will make a couple more observations anyway:

The problem with materialism is materialism.  If it is true, then human beings are nothing special in actuality.  The same process that spit us out will swallow us back up, and we, as individuals, will not know the difference.

I could invite one of the PPs out to lunch, and while chatting, PP could say something that annoyed me, and I could pull out my gun and shoot them in the face.  They would not know any better.  They would have ceased to exist, utterly and absolutely.  Our life would be like a video game (that no one created).  The characters might walk and talk and act like they matter, but they are actually nothing, come from nothing.

In a materialist universe, with no reality beyond matter and its properties, there is no non-material stuff.  There is no "ought," no "should."  When "ought" and "should" happen, they have no force and no weight, because they are unreal.  They are ultimately arbitrary.

If anything, all the evidence around us, about the "way things work," would point to the opposite of justice.  The apparent laws of the material world are cold, callous, brutal--pitiless matter.   How could justice arise naturally from a heaving sea of ever-changing material substances that simply are what they are?

Any code of justice we could come up with would be cosmically unenforceable and random, and therefore meaningless, illusory.  The "original position," the "veil of ignorance," the most happiness for the most people, do no harm, majority opinion, expert opinion--ALL are just personal preferences, not some ultimate reality.  They would be like traffic laws.  We might have excellent reasons for driving on the right, to prevent chaos on the streets, but the choice to organize like that is just a preference.  It could very well be the opposite somewhere else.

to be continued...[/quote]

here's the thing OP - life is not a video game without a god. In fact, it's very possible there is no god and if there is no god nothing has changed. Shooting someone in the face may mean the person who is shot dies - but their loved ones and those who witnessed the shooting did not. It's not some random snapshot incident - there would be far reaching consequences even if the shooter was to run and not get caught by police.

I personally think it is very sad when theists claim that without their god they would be homicidal suicidal maniacs with no meaning and purpose in life. I actually see MORE meaning and purpose in my life when I realize that this life is all there is. I also think that if there's an afterlife it would lose it's meaning after a while because after the first 1,000 years of doing and experiencing everything it would get old. I would rather live this life with meaning and purpose then waste this life pining for an afterlife that may not even exist.

When we lose a loved one they don't just cease to exist. Yes they are dead, yes that may be all there is. But we don't forget about them. Our memories of them and their accomplishments continue to live as long as there are those keeping those memories alive.

And before someone jumps there, as they always do, yes I have lost loved ones. And I'm still an atheist.[/quote]

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