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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Muslima]
OMG,  do you take the time to actually read what is written? I never said social pressure didn't exist.  Social Pressure is obviously present in every society, but your idea that it is the norm for women to cover in muslim countries is false. My family and friends in the Gulf do not cover for societal reasons/pressures, I actually do not know a single person who covers because they are "pressured" to do so, and yes I have lived in a 90+% Muslim country.  The fact that you know some Muslim women who do this doesn't make it the Norm.[/quote]
Clearly, since your family and friends in the Gulf don't cover out of pressure, and since you don't know a single person who is pressured to cover, they must not exist.  No, the Muslim women I know are not the norm. Are you? Your story is just as valid as others.  No one is questioning your experience or denying it. Why are you so dismissive of other women who don't share your story?

[quote=Muslima]
 I have never denied that this exists, just like some women are forced  to wear a hijab in muslim countries, some women are also forced to prostitute themselves in non muslim countries, these things exist and happen everywhere. Your narrative that this is somehow the norm is false and misleading. [/quote]
I never said it's the norm, just that it exists.  There is no such thing as the norm.

[quote=Muslima]
As far the experience of your Saudi IN-Laws, of course they are not representative of Islam. [/quote]
They aren't. And neither are you or your friends and family. No one is.

[quote=Muslima]
I do not consider Saudi Arabia the beacon of Islamic enlightenment and  actually not many Muslims do. You couldn't pay me enough to move to KSA! [/quote]
No country in the world meets this description.

[quote=Muslima]
 And your best example is that of women who take off their hijab when their plane lands on American soil and wear provocative outfits to embrace american liberation, lol. I guess western women that I see wearing an abaya and a headscarf as soon as the plane lands in Kuwait were all pressured by American society to wear miniskirts and stilettos and felt liberated to finally put on an abaya, a headscarf and relax  :lol: funny enough, the only people I see who pressure themselves this way are non-muslims, recent converts,  married to ME men who try to "fit in" thinking they will be "accepted" by dressing the part. [/quote]
There you go again with "this is what I think, so this must clearly be the case for 100% of the population". Don't be ridiculous. If you see western women putting on abayas and headscarves when the plane lands in Kuwait but not before, then clearly they are doing it for reasons other than the love of the religion (otherwise they'd cover in the US, too, where there is no pressure to look the part). And you know what? I am one of these women.  I wear an abaya and cover my face when we travel to KSA.  First, because it's the freaking law (abaya, not face), so here's social pressure for you.  And second, because I prefer to be left alone, not stared at.  I don't need to be accepted by my husband's family since they already adore me, but I don't need to be harassed either.  Perhaps you've never been whistled at or ogled openly in the Gulf - I don't know what your experiences are, but I know what mine are, and they are just as valid as yours.

Anywhere in the Gulf other than KSA, if you travel in rarefied circles of wealthy, professional urban elites or are very obviously foreign and non-Muslim, you're fine uncovered, but if you step down from this class, covering is a very good idea socially if you are openly Muslim.  I am very obviously foreign and non-Muslim, but I cover because I don't need the attention.

[quote=Muslima]
There is no movement to allow men to wear gold and silk because the narrative has always been to present Islam as the religion that oppresses women. What social costs are women facing who choose to wear their hijab/burqas freely in the west? There are people lobbying constantly against their right to wear their hijabs/burqas as they see fit because it is somehow against the values of freedom and liberty. Anyhow, this is my last post on this, no point in repeating  the same thing over and over.[/quote]
There is no lobbying against hijabs or niqabs, in USA as far as I know. In fact, the US is way ahead of some of the European countries on that account.  If you know of any, please post links. Women who cover in the West are doing it mostly out of free will (since there are no social costs for not covering here), so the discussion of social pressure doesn't happen in the context of the USA. [/quote]

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