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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think the main attraction for CTCL schools is parents and kids who do not have the goods for the top goals, but somehow think they are too good for state schools, so they fall for the hype that the book generates.  [/quote]

I honestly hope I never, ever become the kind of person who would feel good posting something like this, and I have no CTCL connection whatsoever. [/quote]

PP ain't wrong though.[/quote]

How are they right? What are some examples of where this person is right?

From what I can tell, there are one or two posters who've been great about analyzing some of the allegations with data and providing links for the rest of us here to read (e.g., affluence, retention, etc). Then there is one (or more according to some posters) who makes charges, but never cycles back to answer questions or provide links to their claims. For example, there are "better" schools than CTCLs providing merit but never answers what those better schools are.

In a related vein, college admissions nearly always involves trade-offs. A prime example is the need for students to draw up lists of reaches, targets, and safeties for a range of reasons, including academic and financial. Not every student is full pay. Not every student wants to attend their state flagship, possibly because they know that setting might not be the best for their temperment and learning style. Alas, one (possibly more) poster here is adamant that these students are always the spawn of affluent families who want to protect their child from the perceived horrors of public schools.

Mystifies me why these folks care - it's not their kid, they are not being asked to pay for these choices, so why are they bothered about a group of schools that a NYT reporter wrote about in a book nearly thirty years ago? [/quote]

What is good for the goose is good for the gander. The CTCL boosters always bash state schools and top private schools, so what’s the difference? You’re allowed to hate, so I can’t we?[/quote]

No. This is disordered thinking on your part. Every school, as another poster said, has advantages and disadvantages. It's not me "bashing" a state school when I say DD would be lost in a large environment, or, in the case of St Mary's, I'm worried it might be too local. It's not me "bashing" a top ten school when I say: 1.) Dd wouldn't get in, 2.) We can't afford it and they dont give merit, or even 3.) I don't think my child or my family has the temperament or patience to deal with the fanbase those schools attract, the kind of competitive students who actually care that the school is ranked 7 or whatever.

So you don't like small liberal arts colleges. That's okay. You've pretty much humiliated yourself by proving your ignorance on the topic. Maybe take the loss and move on. [/quote]

I have a lot of respect for top tier liberal arts colleges.  My kid attended one.  Other than Reed, none of the liberal arts colleges in the book come close.  [/quote]

What's your experience with them?   [/quote]

Other than Reed, they all have student body profiles well below my kids, and my kids wanted to be challenged. [/quote]

You write in the past tense. So your kids are no longer in school? Perhaps were in college in a completely different era? Were full pay so merit wasn't part of the equation?[/quote]

Why is any of that relevant?[/quote]

Because a lot has changed in the admissions world. This person may not grasp that simply because a student's stats may have them in the 75% percentile for a school doesn't change that they are still holding a lottery ticket. [/quote]

[b]Things have not changed that much.[/b]  Then and now and generally speaking the top students don’t end up at CTCL schools. [/quote]

Anyone who can write this plainly idiotic statement about college admissions over the past few years is too brain dead to be having a conversation. There have been literally volumes written by admissions experts about how college admissions has changed tremendously in the past few years but this PP thinks they haven’t changed that much? I mean, at a certain point this has to be a troll, right? Nobody can actually be this dumb?[/quote]

I will repeat:  by every quantifiable measure (GPA, class rank, test scores, admit rates, retention rates, graduation rates, etc.) the CTCL schools by and large do not come close to measuring up to the top 15 or so liberal arts colleges.  That much has NOT changed.  [/quote]

So? I don't think anyone is saying that they do. Do you really think only students who can 1) get into and 2) afford the T15 LACs should get a LAC-style education?  That seems to be the attitude from the anti-CTCL posters. If you aren't rich and a stellar student, you should just settle for your regional public U and be happy with that. There's no point in seeking a better educational experience. Which is a pretty crappy POV.[/quote]

I know, right? It would be nice if: 1) they could accept that parents and their kids can actually evaluate the options and make these decisions without their dogmatic orders and instructions, and 2) they didn't need the buzz of satisfaction they so clearly want by having posters prostrate themselves and humbly acknowledge that Williams has better stats than their CTCL of choice, so neh-nah-neh-nah-neh-neh. It's really quite funny, but unfortunately, it distracts from the OP's request for information about CTCLs.

To get back to the topic of CTCLs, [b]we loved Lawrence, Beloit, Wooster, St. Olaf,[/b] and Denison, along with Gustavus, Muhlenberg, and Oberlin (which might be considered peer CTCLs). We focused on the Midwest and didn't check out the PNW schools as we felt they were too far away, but they look fabulous too. I'm so glad that my kid can consider these options.

[/quote]

Did your kid apply this year? Mine applied/was accepted to the bolded four. All are pretty strongly in the running. Have yet to see Lawrence and St. Olaf in person, though -- next month, I hope. Have a friend who teaches at Lawrence. They love it, and Appleton. [/quote]

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