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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The Chicago thing is crazy because from top private high schools they only matriculate kids who are well out of the top 20%. Maybe this year will be different. [/quote]

Chicago and Hopkins are T10 oddballs. I’ve never met a kid who dreams of going to either.  [/quote]

you bitter. get over it[/quote]

Different poster.  He's not wrong. They're the only top10 schools that have ED2. 
The only reason to have ED2 is to get a second shot at top students who didn't choose you ED1. [/quote]

Kind of a dumb take.  No one EDs to brown, dartmouth, cornell, etc as a dream school.  It's because they didn't feel as confident going for HYPSM.  I think it's smart to offer ED2.    Most people who end up at lower top 10s had bigger dreams but landed at a solid backup.

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I am not a big fan of Chicago or Hopkins but their top students are probably smarter than a lot of HYP these days. HYP admissions is not based on academic merit.[/quote]
I would agree with this, though it is also true at many flagships.[/quote]

Yes. In fact, due simply to its sheer size, a top public school like Michigan has more 1500+ SAT students in its incoming class than Harvard. The math is simple: In Fall 2024, Michigan has 8858 freshmen and a 75th percentile SAT of 1530, meaning it has 2214 freshmen scoring above 1530. In comparison, Harvard has 1647 freshmen and a 25th percentile SAT of 1500, meaning it has 1235 freshmen scoring above 1500. Of course, both schools were test optional in Fall 2024 which skewed these numbers, but the errors were unlikely to drop Michigan's 2214 below Harvard's 1235, especially when Michigan's threshold was 1530 while Harvard's was 1500. (And of course Harvard is significantly better on a per capita basis, just not the headcount.)[/quote]

michigan is 51% test submitted. If test required, i suspect 75th percentile is under 1500 easy[/quote]

PP. Even if Michigan's 75th percentile is 1500, it still has 2214 above 1500 whereas Harvard only has 1235 above 1500 assuming 100% submitted SAT at Harvard. Almost double. Again this is not to say that Michigan is better on a per capita basis. It has more 1500+ scorers than Harvard simply because it is gigantic.[/quote]

Take a look at national merit scholars. https://www.nationalmerit.org/s/1758/images/gid2/editor_documents/annual_report.pdf?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email&gid=2&pgid=61&sessionid=95e8c223-1c14-43e9-96d6-3fcd0d0626cc&cc=1

Harvard has 147.  Michigan has 89.[/quote]

Well, if you want to use the number of National Merit Scholars as a measure of the raw number of smart kids at a school, then according to the document you linked Purdue has 253, Texas A&M has 258, Alabama has 301, Florida has 394, and UT Dallas has 188. All significantly outperforming Harvard. This supports my (and the earlier poster's) point that big public schools have more smart kids than Harvard, simply because they are huge. (They have a boatload more of not-so-smart kids, of course.)[/quote]

incorrect analysis. the numbers you cite are sponsored by the school. The real number is in parenthesis since harvard does not sponsor national merit scholars.[/quote]

meant to say the real number is the total minus what is in parenthesis. In which case alabama and ut dallas have around 40-50 total.[/quote]

Alabama claims to have 362 NMSs in its freshman class (https://news.ua.edu/2025/09/uas-record-enrollment-growth-reinforces-in-state-investment-academic-excellence/). UT Dallas claims to have a total of 850 NMSs which averages out to roughly 212 per class (https://honors.utdallas.edu/facts-figures/). Both schools have more NMSs than Harvard's 147.

I know it's hard to fathom that average big publics can have lots of smart kids, and a handful of these big publics that offer NMFs full-ride actually have more NMFs than Harvard.

(Disclaimer: I don't think being an NMS is necessarily a good measure for smart, but that's the measure a PP used so I just followed. I also understand whether an NMF becomes an NMS depends on sponsorship and institution.)[/quote]

You are dense.  The 362s are sponsored by Alabama (aka a merit scholarship for national merit finalists) not by NMSC foundation.  The actual amount in Alabama sponsored by NMSC is ~41 compared to Harvard's 147.  Harvard does not sponsor National Merit Scholars. Same for UT Dallas.

Learn the basic math.  If harvard sponsored all national merit finalists, it might have well over 600 per freshman class.[/quote]

Same for UT Dallas and Alabama*

Page: 42

Harvard - 147 merit scholars sponsored by NMSC
UT Dallas - 23 merit scholars sponsored by NMSC.  Rest were just finalists sponsored via scholarships by UT Dallas.
UAlabama - 45 merit scholars sponsored by NMSC.

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