Reply to Emotional Labor - a good read for men AND women

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think you are purposefully simplifying.  The things I value my DH says he values as well, sometimes more than me - this is absolutely NOT a case of me expecting him to do the work he doesn't care about in order to support my values. However in cases where the work required to manifest those values is emotional / logistical he nature he doesn't seem to do (see?) the work required, and / or underestimates the psychic toll of being the one who has to do the work.  I don't think that is unusual and that is where the resentment comes in. In our case my DH is extremely close to his family and does in fact value the relationship between our children and his parents.  He also values his relationship with me.  However for some reason (mental blinders? I have no idea) he doesn't necessarily see that actions are required to manifest this, like the logistics of arranging family dinners, or scheduling a babysitter, etc.  [/quote]

Of course I am simplifying, but really, the underlying problem IS simple.  Take ownership/responsibility for doing the things you are emotionally invested in and do not project that investment onto others.

You, on the other hand, are conflating a lot of non-emotional labor: making plans, scheduling babysitters, handling all manner of logistics, which are mental or physical but not "emotional".  Really, though, that's splitting hairs and yet again, adding unnecessary complication.  [b]Nobody who has been tasked with those tasks would dispute they are work.[/b]

Which leads to gauging the investment of others, as in how much do they really value something: [b]actions speak louder than words.  Talk is cheap.[/b]  If your husband were really invested in your kids being deeply involved in his parent's lives, then he'd make an effort.  Of course, if you are already beating him to the punch, and doing it all for him, then why should he be moved to do some work?  Heck, if my wife takes the lead, I'll step back and follow. I don't need to dominate or control (and taking charge and doing is a form of that) every aspect of our lives.

Perhaps you need to "drop the rope" to figure out whether it really won't get done unless you step up and do it.  If you've already tested that at great length and he still doesn't pick up the rope (cf the PP who commented that her husband completely dropped the ball on Christmas presents for his FOO), then you've got your answer, don't you?

[quote=Anonymous]In fact in our marriage these things far more often go the other way - that DH assumes I will do the heavy lifting for things women frequently care more about but where he is the one to care more in our particular marriage.  Examples of this include keeping a tidy house and attending Church.  Personally I'm pretty comfortable with a lot of clutter, and if pressed I'd actually identify as an atheist.  However he likes things neat and wants our whole family to go to Church (vs him just taking the kids) and so I make an effort in these areas because it matters to him.  I know I don't go as far as he'd like, but it's certainly a lot farther than I would go if on my own.  And what I, and I think many frustrated women, fell is that our spouse's aren't always willing to put in the same efforts.[/quote]

If you're an atheist who doesn't care how clean the house is, and you feel unappreciated for the extra efforts you make to do things only he cares about, then you also have your answer: stop going the extra steps.  Drop the rope.  It really is that simple.  If you don't keep the house as clean as he would like, he can clean, or he can hire a cleaning service.  Let him make all the church plans and get the kids there, etc.  It really doesn't matter what the activity is - Church is not in any way more or less special than Soccer League in this regard - if it's important to him and not to you, he can take the lead.

I do agree that many many women are [b]frustrated that their spouses don't place the same importance or value on certain things as the women do[/b].  Men feel this way too.  Effort is relative to investment.  I think it's very very unusual for two people to feel exactly the same way about everything.

[quote=Anonymous]Essentially it's a classic case of the Prisoner's dilemma. And while some men are jerks who are happy to make their lives better at the expense of their wives, I don't think that's the case for most - I think it's that they don't even see the work that is trapping her, so they don't value it and don't step up to the plate to cooperate and do their share.  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prisoner%27s_dilemma[/quote]

I'm really really familiar with game theory, and in the words of Inigo Montoya:

[img]http://usercontent2.hubimg.com/12777757.jpg[/img]

There is no dilemma of your husband ratting you out before you rat him out, or either of you staying quiet.

[b]If you are saying you feel like a prisoner in your relationship, that sucks.[/b]  It's time to stop doing things that aren't important to you and let him pick up the slack (if it's important enough to him).  Please see what I said about laundry, and what my first wife said to me.  [/quote]

I'm not the PP to whom you respond, but in game theory, the model is more generally applicable in terms of "cooperating" or "defecting".  In this way the prisoner's dilemma is more generally applicable to a wide range of situations beyond the plea deal dilemma described in the original prisoner's dilemma.  If you think about it, parenting is a bit like a prisoner's dilemma in terms of decisions to cooperate or defect.........[/quote]

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