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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Why should there be a written reference to Jesus during this lifetime? He was just a fairly insignificant Jewish peasant preacher while he was alive.  Once his movement grew after his death, written references began to appear.[/quote]

If a person is changing water into wine and resurrecting the dead, one would THINK those stories would be capture by literate folks.

[/quote]

That may justify skepticism that he indeed performed this deeds. But it is irrelevant to assess whether or not he existed.[/quote]

Well, the lack of primary evidence certainly supports the belief that he may not have existed. Furthermore, the Nicaean Council certainly had a say in what was "real" and what wasn't when it sorted through biblical books. [/quote]

No. The lack of contemporary evidence means that he was unremarkable like 99.9% of people who existed back then ( including many Jews who also called themselves messiah and had followers and that were also executed, many of them cruficied) -- and  that his original followers, like Jesus himself and like pesanants and fishermen of their time, were illiterate and relied on oral tradition, not written one. Of course, Greek-speaking educated  early followers, like Paul, wrote many letters a decade or two after his death.

But here we are talking about non-Christian writers. As I said earlier, Josephus and Titus wrote about him around 70 CE.  Josephus mentioned about James, brother of Jesus; Titus about the followers of "Chrestos".[/quote]

Yes, we all know about Josephus and Titus.  again - not enough evidence to support that Jesus was the Messiah - a few little lines written years after his death . . .

And I love the oral tradition discussion.   [i]The Odyssey [/i] - oral tradition, yes?  like the biblical stories?  all shared orally b/c illiteracy was more the norm than not

So I guess you believe the cyclops was real and that the Sirens lure men to their deaths.  [/quote]

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