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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Honest question... could you please help me understand why those kinds of clothes are a problem? Thanks!

I get that certain places have rules, and while I disagree in some ways with most dress codes I can acknowledge that I think they should almost always be followed, but I don't actually understand why any sort of clothing is specifically bad.

I guess I'm rather clueless, or at least not mainstream in my views.[/quote]

This is my understanding of why it's an issue. There are areas of the body that we consider private, personal. For boys and girls, the genitals and the buttocks, and for girls the chest. Adults expose or accentuate these areas when trying to attract other adults. They will wear revealing, close cut clothing. If a child wears clothing that mimics that sexual enhancement, we read it as "wrong" because we're reading it as a child doing something to sexually enhance themselves. Those of us who don't see this as a particular issue understand that a young child wearing a triangle-cut bikini is not sexually enhancing herself because there is nothing to sexually enhance - she is a child. Those who view it as a girl's/woman's responsibility to cater to the male gaze see the girl as doing something wrong because she's trying to sexually enhance herself.

Short shorts can make other people uncomfortable because they can reveal areas that we consider sexually important. The emphasis is placed on the girl to not make others feel uncomfortable, so that adults don't have to consider why they're viewing 11-13 year old children as sexual objects.[/quote]

Bingo!  Here's the interesting thing.  The girls know about sex at this age and they want to look like the sexy TV stars and fashion models, but they don't want to attract glances from creepy old men.  I just explained my objection to one of my daughter's clothing option in this way.  "You're developing to look like a woman.  If you wear things like this that show off your womanly parts, some men will look at you in a sexual way."  She was flabbergasted and grossed out.  She then defended her right to wear a bikini at our summer pool (where there are no creepy old men she thinks) and we discussed how that might be a better choice than at the beach under the glaring eyes of lots of strangers.  We're still navigating how we set appropriate standards for my 12 year old, but I think this sort of open conversation about why certain things make me as her parent (and particularly her dad) uncomfortable are important for her to understand.  Trying to educate her rather than just forbid tons of stuff.  And NO her but cheeks don't hang out.   [/quote]

OK, but... there's another side to that. If SHE is uncomfortable by the fact that some people will possibly think of her based on her outfit, then it's totally legitimate for her to choose to avoid that. But, I hope that was your message, and not that she HAS TO care what anyone else thinks of however she dresses. That was my approach with my DD and the only one I personally think makes sense.

If she's comfortable in what she's wearing, great.

If someone else thinks a thing, thoughts are fine as long as their actions are appropriate (UNLESS DD has decided she doesn't want to be thought of that way, in which case altering her clothing choices may be the only option because no one can change another's thoughts).

She still has the absolute right to wear whatever she chooses and NOT have anyone act inappropriate with her. That's totally on the agent of the potential action, not anyone's DD the recipient.

[b]To me, that message, "what people think doesn't need to be relevant to you unless it impacts your comfort; the important thing is that YOU like how you have chosen to dress" is usually the most important message to send about clothing, because the basic theme is applicable to so many other important topics.[/b][/quote]

I like this.  I work in education, and too often, I have girls complaining to me that what people said about their outfits upset them.  It's a tough line -- [b]I don't think anyone has the right to make another person feel badly about themselves based on their choices or beliefs [/b](which so often seems to be the case on here!), but at the same time, when what they're wearing overtly goes against the accepted social norms, it's not surprising that 12 and 13 year olds will be critical.  [b]Maybe we need to educate all people in how to be nicer to each other ...[/b] [/quote]

Poster you're replying to... Yep, you've perfectly understood the point I was intending to convey to DD.

YES, exactly. People need to learn what is their business (things that impact them or harm someone else) and what isn't (everything else) and to be kind and accepting and not judge for non-harmful choices because there's nothing objectively wrong with anything that doesn't cause harm or a problem for someone not making the choice to accept that.

You sound like a great person and a great educator with that attitude; I hope you work at DD's school but regardless some students are lucky to have an influence like you in their lives.[/quote]

I'm the Bingo PP.  I think you're right but at some point the girls have to be taught that sexually suggestive clothes is sexually suggestive.  They don't inherently know that. They don't know that some dance moves are mimicking sex acts unless you tell them so.   My DD has a lot of body confidence and I love that and she will attract unwanted attention in the future as we all have.  [b]She needs to have as much information upon which to base her decisions as possible. [/b] She doesn't have as much world experience as I do in this department, so some explaining and guidance  is necessary.  [/quote]

Absolutely, and I didn't mean to imply otherwise. One of my roles as a parent is helping DD make fully informed decisions. We definitely discuss what our culture has decided about such things, and consequently what many people may think, even if we then have to discuss how and why I think our culture's attitude/approach is messed up. I almost always think our culture has a messed up attitude towards anything related to gender/gender norms/people's bodies/anything to do even slightly with sexuality. But I definitely ensure DD knows the mainstream line of thought, because like it or not that's the world we live in and the way most people with whom we interact view things. That's important to keep in mind.[/quote]

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