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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I think that out of all things to discuss about Islam, the fact that it doesn't believe in trinity is as uncontroversial as it gets.

Who really DOES believe in trinity, besides Christians?[/quote]Even some Christians don't believe in the trinity.[/quote]

+1. As that Dirks piece even points out, Harvard has been showing these early Christian-era documents (gnostic, contemporaneous jewish and various sects of the early Christian era) to seminarians for the last 20-30 years at least. It's not like this is anything new. These early Christian-era documents have been around for about 1900 years now, and many protestant catholic seminaries in the country teach them, as part of teaching how various doctrines like the trinity evolved.

In fact, if these other documents are so persuasive, why did only one single Harvard seminarian see these documents and then convert to Islam 20 years later? Consider that thousands of other Harvard seminarians saw these documents and never converted to Islam.

If you think Harvard is so great, then you won't be wowed by a ratio of 1 convert to Islam / 10,000 (or whatever) Harvard seminarians.

I have no doubt that many of these thousands of Harvard seminarians came out wondering about the Trinity. But only one converted to Islam.

Put me down in the "don't care" camp. I like Jesus' message better than other messages. I'm not converting to Islam because OP posted some link about one Harvard seminarian.

[/quote]

Yes, these documents are persuasive to some who see them, but if they do not convert it doesn't necessarily mean they weren't compelling. It would take a kind of fortitude not common to most people to actually leave Christianity because of what they've seen. If every seminarian converts, it would certainly shake up the Christianity faith and thats a monumental burden few people have shoulders broad enough to bear.
Here are a few more former Christian clergymen who converted, sometimes after seeing the orignal manuscripts that contradicted the Bible:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHBY2nGxJS8
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=808_1318966592

and here are others that we actually know about (from http://www.missionislam.com/comprel/former.htm)
Dr. Jerald F. Dirks - Former minister (deacon) of the United Methodist Church. He holds a Master's degree in Divinity from Harvard University and a Doctorate in Psychology from the University of Denver. Author of The Cross and the Crescent: An Interfaith Dialogue between Christianity and Islam (ISBN 1-59008-002-5 - Amana Publications, 2001). He has published over 60 articles in the field of clinical psychology, and over 150 articles on Arabian horses
Abdullah al-Faruq - Formerly Kenneth L. Jenkins, minister and elder of the Pentecostal Church
Viacheslav Polosin - Former Archpriest of the Russian Orthodox Church
Anselm Tormeeda - 14th century CE scholar and priest
Khadijah 'Sue' Watson - Former pastor, missionary, professor. Master's degree in Divinity
Ibrahim Khalil - Former Egyptian Coptic priest
Anonymous Female Missionary - Former Catholic missionary
Martin John Mwaipopo - Former Lutheran Archbishop
Raphael - Former Jehovah's Witness minister
George Anthony - Former Catholic priest
Dr. Gary Miller (Abdul-Ahad Omar) - Former missionary

And other researchers have also come to the same conclusion as Dr. Jerald Dirks that Trinity is a man made concept, and not from the original manuscripts. Here's a research article that concludes, "Research, therefore, proves that even the concept of the Trinity, as taught by Christian religions, did not exist, and could not have existed, during all of Biblical history. The deduction, by factual research and logical reasoning, is that there is absolutely no evidence or proof that there is a Trinity. The evidence, in fact, proves the opposite -- there is definitely not a Trinity." Source: http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html

Although most Muslims have not done extensive research, they all believe that divinity of Jesus and trinity are two concepts they can never understand or accept. It surprises some Muslims, however, that Christians believe Muslims will go to hell for not accepting that Jesus is God. This is quite different from most Muslims who do believe Christians may still go to Heaven despite the errors in their belief system.

Trinity is such a critical part of Christianity and Muslims are sometimes asked by Christians why they do not believe in it. It is incomprehensible to Muslims that God Almighty would turn himelf into a man. It is a difficult concept to grasp if one believes God is above man. However, if Trinity and the divinity of Jesus were, in fact, man made concepts developed because of geo-political issues at the time, it confirms to Muslims that Judaism, Christianity, and Islam truly deliver the same message. [/quote]

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