Reply to how to increase economic diversity in schools.

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]^ And...  if the rest of us have to be personally responsible, it's not right for others to get a pass.  Most of us are not members of the 1%, most of us did not have wealth, advantage and privilege fall into our laps.  Maybe we have a decent job, maybe a decent place to live - but we had to work damn hard for it.  We had to save for it.  We had to plan for it.  We had to make choices for it.  We had to sacrifice for it.  We made our share of struggles and mistakes getting here.  But, we tried.  And after all those struggles, trials and tribulations in getting here, it is deeply offensive and insulting to have people trivialize all of that, to suggest that it was advantage, privilege, unlevel playing field, different starting point, all kinds of judgement when in fact many of us did come from poor, dysfunctional, alcoholic/drug-dependent, abusive, single-parent households ourselves.  It's a slap in the face to suggest anything was handed to us.  And it's also a slap in the face, after all we went through, to then turn around and suggest anyone else should just get a pass and shouldn't really have to try, shouldn't be held responsible - when we ourselves did try and we did hold ourselves responsible.  It's frankly deeply insulting.[/quote]

Give me a freakin' break.  Where do I say people from the most challenged backgrounds get a pass?  Where do I say those of us who are surviving didn't work for it?  And are you even responding to my actual post?  You're saying I said that those who came from dysfunctional, alcholhol/drug-dependent abusive households had something handed to them?  What planet are you on?  I'm the one who pointed out that my mom died when I was 16 and I commuted 2+ hrs to school each day, and it was because my family worked HARD to get me into the school and instill the value to go.  What part of that is having something "handed" to me?  Read what you are responding to before you have a freaking cow in your response.  You are responding to things I simply didn't say and you are apparently incapable of understanding the message I WAS trying to deliver.

For the rest of you: you simply have to ask yourself whether you are interested in seeing all kids get the supports they need for a shot at a good education, or you are only interested in seeing your kid succeed.  Raising kids is the hardest work any of us will ever do.  Many can't or don't or won't go the extra mile to look at the bigger problems.  But if you ARE someone who holds the value that work needs to be done (regardless of who you think needs to do it) to improve the situation so that ALL kids are supported in having a realistic shot at a good education, then  you have to accept, recognize, and deal with the fact that once a child is born into a difficult situation, IT IS INCREDIBLY DIFFICULT to work one's way out.  Standing on the sidelines and yelling at people "Be responsible!  Try harder!  Do better!  Raise your kids better!  Don't let the gangs in your neighborhood shoot your kids or recruit your kids!"  Yeah, how is all that yelling working for the families that are plagued by these issues?  It's like trying to get a child to do something by just yelling at the child to do it, not showing them daily, with nurturing, how to do it.  How does yelling and cutting kids off from supports work for improving how they act and grow up?  Exactly, it doesn't work, it screwes kids up.  Standing on the side demanding more responsibility and better parenting has never, and will never, actually improve parenting.  And the kids suffer, and then they grow into adults who have kids who still don't know how to do any better.

Standing on the sidelines and demanding that everyone do their share and if they don't, tough shit, is guaranteed to cut off and disadvantage and further plunge the most at risk and vulnerable kids into further generational poverty, abuse, mental health problems, substance abuse, and violence.  This is one of THE most evidence-based facts in the world.  Schools are not able nor should they be tasked with SOLVING all of these bigger social problems.  BUT... if schools are to effectively education all kids, schoools need to have resources redistributed in order to support the kids and the teachers and engage the parents while the kids are in the building so they can actually learn while they are in the buidling.  (As stated elsewhere, the resources needed are mostly social workers, behavior and discipline specialists, and staff to can engage the parents when the kids are struggling badly or not coming to school.  Enageage doesn't mean sending a letter and waiting to see if the parent responds.  It means calling and asking the parentt to come in, and if no response and things ares till bad, doing a home visit.  The goal of all that is to see what the problme is and figure out whether the school has access to any external resources that will address the problem so the kid can come back or do better while they're in the building.  That may sound simple, but it's almost impossible without the staff to do it.

None of my posts are commenting on the "increasing economic diversity" proposal that this thread is mainly about.  It is just to point out to people who say "Parents should take responsibility" yes, they should.  Gues what?  A lot of them don't or are incapable of it (due to mental health or so much PTSD they don't function) and guess what else?  THEYIR KIDS NEED HELP.  Not providing that help guarantees more problems.  It's not because anyone's getting a pass, it's ebcause that is the nature of generational abuse, PTSD, mental untreated mental illness, and disabilities that aren't addressed.

I never said those who didn't come from abusive households didn't work for what they have, and I never said anyone gets a "pass".  And frankly, once again, the fact that you obviously DID NOT grow up in these kinds of households is evident (talking to the PP who just totally responded to a post she dreamed up and not what I actually wrote) because if you knew what kind of living hell it is to grow up in an abusive, neglectful, household or chronically hungry or watching someone beat the crap out of someone else or always fearing for yoru safety every.single.time. you open your door to go out or try to come home... if you knew what kind of hell that was on a daily basis, you'd never call what I'm saying "giving anyone a pass".    Being realistic and evidence-based about what it takes to break the cycles of generational substance abuse, abuse and poverty on a macro level means understanding that it has never been enough, and will never be enough, to just look at people failing and say "Do better.  Try harder."  ALMOST NO ONE DOES BETTER AND TRIES HARDER AND WORKS THEIR WAY OUT OF HORRIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES WITHOUT A ***GUIDE*** AND WITHOUT ***SUPPORT***.  I know plenty of people who came from unspeakable rotten backgrounds who are stable, functioning, amazing members of socieity now.  Getting out was the hardest work ever, but they did it, band guess wheat?  The single most common factor that distinguishes the people who DO make it from the people who DON't make it out is at least ONE - it just takes one - stable, healthy adult presence who is there for the long run as a support.  Someone you can go to when you're unsafe, sick, lost... and someone who keeps reminding you there is another way.  I've been working with at risk kids for 20 years and I have YET to meet the person who came from hell and worked their way out of it without some model, some support, some guidance about how and where to go.

People like you who refuse to be reaslistic about what it takes to solve these larger societal ills will always be part of the problem, not the solution, because you have no idea of how to work on these issues yourself or weigh which policies/politicians/initiatives to support to really move these issues locally.  You sit there judging that everyone just has to try harder and no one should get a pass and accusing people of saying you didn't work to be where you are.  Get f'in real.  No one is saying that and you are really part of the problem in your inability to understand why you have to consider that starting point matters.

I will not be further posting on this because I don't think there's any other way for me to ttry to say what I'm saying.[/quote]

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