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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
PP, if it works for you and makes you happy, fine then.  What struck me, though, was that you define life success as wealth, with wealth as something of a proxy for professional achievement.  I disagree on both counts, or at least find something deeply lacking on both counts.  I wouldn't consider someone a life success unless they had a healthy ego, had loving, secure relationships with family and friends, were an asset to their community, performed all of their responsibilities well--both professional and personal-- and had found a place in life that brought out the best of their character and talents.  Your definition of life success seemed relatively flat to me.  [/quote]

PP here. I thought maybe it was obvious, but I was more or less talking about professional success, or success at one's vocation, or the overall ability to provide for one's family in support of a desired life style. After all, we don't end up with the money to buy million dollar homes through any other means other than some manner of labor, investment, or commerce. I do agree that balance is important, such as healthy relationships with oneself, family, friends, and community. But I do not see these as being exclusive or not compatible with financial success. If I lose some friends by being successful, I don't see that this represents a failure in any context. We don't all cling onto our childhood friends simply because that's where we started from. We don't even remain the same person (holding on to our own ego) as the process of maturity changes who we are, what we value, and how we behave. My comments in this thread were focused on financial success as and its effects on friends because that's what the thread is about. No where did I say that financial success is the only measure of life success.

[quote=Anonymous]Likewise, the only definition of professional success you note is determined by money.  You basically excluded, by definition, all of the contributions and achievements people make that are not reflected in their pay.  There doesn't seem to be room for people who provide social services, educate others, make discoveries in basic science, or simply put food on the table reliably for their family when that meager act takes a Herculean effort under their particular circumstances.[/quote]

I truly believe that wealth is in general an excellent proxy for professional achievement. This is because we live in a society that largely rewards people based on the value of their professional contribution. Someone who makes more valuable contribution gets rewarded with more money. Of course you can site anecdotes of poor artists who are only recognized for the value of their work after they die, to which I would point out that such anecdotes are just that, anecdotes, and the world isn't fair and balanced to everyone. To address the specific examples you gave: the value of a service provided is related to the supply and demand. Social services and educators are in great demand but they are also of great supply. This is the same observation that while water is critical to human life, there isn't much value in a cup of water because there is so much of it readily available. As for someone who struggles to put food on the table due to their circumstances. Surely such a person is deserving of our respect for being self sufficient but I don't see why this qualifies as being successful at life unless he is doing better than others in the same circumstances - but then aren't we still using wealth as a proxy for achievement even in this case?

[quote=Anonymous]The knowledge you say you seek in running your comparisons with others is about how to further fulfill your own narrow definitions of success (read: wealth).  It's not about gaining any kind of greater wisdom about something larger than yourself or your own interests.  What's especially disheartening is that you deliberately only associate with people who are like or more successful than you according to wealth, so you deprive yourself of opportunities to actually become truly wise.[/quote]

Sorry, your premise that I have a narrow definition of success is wrong. Wealth is a proxy for success, and it's one of the few objective parameters that we can compare on an Internet forum to gauge the degree of success. But being a proxy for success doesn't mean it is the success itself - that's what proxy means. My wisdom and interests are probably only interesting to me as an individual. Telling the world that I have a love for basket weaving probably makes for boring conversation except for others that also enjoy basket weaving. As I learn from different people based on their success, I see that people become successful for different reasons. If anything it has broadened by horizons by exposing me to many more possibilities.

[quote=Anonymous]
Sorry, PP, to sound so critical.  I can tell there is much about you to admire.  Don't sell life so short.  It's far richer than you've described.  (And maybe I have you all wrong.  After all, a few paragraphs on a web post hardly capture us in all of our complexity, do they?)  Cheers.[/quote]Well geez, I wasn't trying to describe my entire view of the world, life, and my own self worth in one anonymous internet post, even if it was a long-ish post. I don't think it's constructive to be a quick judge. [/quote]

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