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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OP, I'm the one who said you have a choice between 2 sets of problems.

You are in a difficult place. I think if things can remain "neutral", maybe slogging it out for 13ish years is a plan. If you can get to a place where you are not mourning over a husband not understanding you after 20 years, if you can accept he isn't going to tell you that you're beautiful, isn't going to get you thoughtful gifts, isn't going to thank you for all the things you do for the kids...

If you can get to the place where you stop expecting anything from him, and resign yourself to this odd situation and maybe with counseling, get to the place where you aren't forever grieving, you may be able to get to a situation where you do it all, you don't ask or expect him to help, you don't expect loving gestures from him and you don't collapse over it when he doesn't, you get to a place where you are learning to be independent, find joy outside the home, bide your time, and maybe you can survive for 10-15 years.

But if you are not yet past grieving, it's going to be a long, sad 13 years, wishing, hoping, ruminating, getting disappointed, etc.

To make it independently in a so-called marriage, you have to separate emotionally and realize you are doing what you have to do, and maybe in 15 years, you can divorce and live a more authentic life.

What you can't do is wallow for 15 years. And during those 15 years, it is your mission to learn about your finances, savings, debts, taxes and not be in a gullible position, should divorce suddenly be forced upon you..

If you stay, you need private counseling to help you deal with your disappointing state in the situation, but learn to take power in knowing your finances, being ready for him to pull a fast one, and just hang out if it's "healthy" until time ages up the kids.

However, if it gets to an unhealthy point, where he is trashing you to the kids when you aren't around, insulting you in front of them, cheating on you in broad daylight, any physical violence, doing damaging things, at some point, you just have to take the lumps and divorce.

Just stop expecting anything nice from him and start working on your self image and confidence excluding his input, and let him start worrying about losing your support.

Oh I remember the days of thinking counseling will finally, maybe solve everything. No, when I finally dragged him there it was a fizzle. What a let down. Now my final hope was gone. So don't put too much hope that it will be the answer. It probably won't be.

Stay for now if you think you can stop expecting him to be nice and loving. But be ready to leave once it crosses the line into total traumatic situations that your kids don't need to see.

Best wishes to you.[/quote]

OP here. I appreciate your thoughtful reply.

I don't think counseling will do much, except make the bank account smaller. But would still try on the off chance it may help.

My biggest concern over my own resentment, is his temper with the kids. He refuses to let them be kids - he doesn't like when they make noise or are running around (the latter isn't happening all the time). He doesn't seem to understand that kids will be kids. They are loud and messy. But I think our kids are fairly "tame" compared to others including family and friend kids.

I am very concerned about the relationship between our oldest and him and that he is inflicting lifelong damage to her self-esteem and just the ability to have a healthy relationship with him.

My relationship with my mom started going off the rails when I was just 6 years old. It has never recovered 30+ years later.

He likes things to be orderly but doesn't make an effort to help tidy or organize. He literally said I don't get up and spend time during the day to do it so that is why the house is a wreck (nevermind barely having a moment to eat, which isn't until later in the day).

So.. I hear what you're saying, it just makes me sad that I shouldn't expect to have an equal partner in life for companionship and as a parent.

I hope things are better for you now![/quote]
Yes, things are better for me now. I remarried a man who not only loves and appreciates me, but tells me that. But it was not easy, dealing with my ex who hated me for standing up to him, then eventually my new husband's ex, who was happy to dump him, until she realized he found someone who loved and appreciated him, when she hadn't. Complicated.

But you can not count on meeting Prince Charming, and it's probably better you postpone any of that until the kids are adults.

Your ex is going to inflict damage on your kid(s) whether married to you or divorced from you, so let that settle in to your conscious. At least know you are witness to the specifics now while you live together. But it's not something you can stop or influence, married or divorced.

You are right about kids being kids. So stop feeling like you need to convince others about this. Take confidence in this that you are right, he is an idiot and you will never convince him otherwise, and there is no need to convince others. Just let his comments and criticisms blow right over you while you let the kids be kids. Remember he is the hands off parent, so his opinion doesn't count as much as yours. And if you are going to hang in for a dozen years, let this roll off your back. You can't choose the "hang for 13 years" choice if you are going to challenge him and try to show him you're right. You just have to take over, ignore him, tend to the kids and stay independent.

If you are sad, grieving, wishing, depressed, you need counseling and support as to how you weather through this long, long storm. If you stay, you have to get to the point where you separate your happiness from him and find it independently. Yeah, not typical, but it's either that or enter divorce warfare. Which you eventually may have to do, but use this time to get stronger personally.

He likes things orderly. Yeah, so what. Either things are messy and he nags, or if it works out, you straighten up, things are neat. But it has nothing to do with him. If this point causes him to insist on divorce, then you can't fight an uphill battle. Maybe that is what will happen. But if you are doing a normal workday and things are a mess, go to sleep. Let him rant. Move on. This is an example of a challenge where you have to let it roll on over your back. And if he blows up and leaves?, Well, there is your answer. This marriage can not withstand a stilted, distanced couple. Maybe it would have worked out, but possibly it's not. Then at least you won't feel like the decision is all you.

One way or another, I think things will work out for you if you can fight for your personal self to stand firm and proud. No matter what happens.

[/quote]

OP here. I really appreciate your reply, again.

The last two weeks or so I've been trying to focus more on myself. As silly as it sounds, I bought some new clothes (literally just t-shirts, long sleeve shirts, sweatshirts, and leggings) that actually have color to them.

I've historically been a dark clothing person (not goth, just black/gray/navy colored clothes) so I've been wanting to introduce actual color into my clothing.

I've always wanted to get my ear cartilages pierced and some small tattoos (just the birth flowers of my kids). Perhaps I'll finally be able to initiate something there.

I've been trying to stick to a morning routine, as well. In general trying to make myself feel cuter or better to help with my self-confidence/image.

I'm hoping that when I feel better, it'll also help my kids feel more confident, too, if that can even be a thing.

I'm really glad to hear you're in a mutually loving relationship! How wonderful for you - proud and happy for you![/quote]

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