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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The demarcation throws the conversation off.

There are absolutely cradle Catholics who are deep in Bible study (Bible in a Year was a smashing success in Catholic circles), know the catechism well, and generally try to actively live out their faith/the sacraments.

There are also cradle Catholics who are (a) poorly formed in the faith; (b) not particularly active in the faith; or (c) do not identify with it as a faith but rather as a cultural identity.  There are other types, too.

On (a) I once had someone in total shock tell me they had never heard of HDOs and they had been educated by Jesuits for 13 years (you don’t say!) and clearly I was making it up.

On (b) a poster up thread mentioned not being particularly active in the Church.

On (c) there is the poster who mentioned Jewish and Catholic interfaith marriages working well; which sort of fits the bill (both ways).

These are all individuals captured by “cradle Catholic” along with everyone else.   Just too broad of a term.

Given that converts are more likely to be conservative (not always), and that the swath of cradle Catholics is just way too broad to categorize, I don’t think these comparisons are helpful.

I do think that converts can be caught by surprise by just how big the tent of Catholicism is and the many ways people practice within that tent.

I also think converts can struggle with the mysticism within Catholicism. One of my closest friends is a convert (but his wife is cradle). We’ve taken our families on multiple pilgrimages together to places like Mexico City and Rome and he is still learning to embrace the mysticism. We’re planning on going to Fatima next year and that will be another interesting case. [/quote]

Nobody said that cradle Catholics don’t read the Bible. They said they don’t go to Bible study.

Also, nobody said that cradle Catholics are all the same what was said is that they have some themes and shared experiences that are the same that make them feel connected to each other.

They could have 80% of their experiences be different but the 20% that is the same that other people don’t experience is what they were bonding over.

I’d be really surprised if a cradle cat was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything. I haven’t been to Fatima yet but most my family has and it’s just like oh wow that was cool. There’s no spiritual awakening or anything.

[/quote]

This is an example of the poor formation category of cradle Catholics. Perhaps the mysticism is not for you. Perhaps it does not speak to you. But the idea that you would be “really surprised if a cradle [Catholic] was getting all wrapped up in the mysticism of anything” reveals a shallow contact with the faithful and a disengagement from the faith.  I’m frankly shocked any Catholic who is engaged with the Church would say such a thing.   I mean, what do you believe you are receiving in the communion line?

I do think there is a tendency for low engagement/poorly formed cradle Catholics in America to assume that their low engagement/poor formation is the universal experience of Catholics. First, there are literally hundreds of millions of Catholics outside of the USA who embrace the mysticism of Catholicism, especially outside of Europe.

There are also millions of Catholics in the USA who do as well. I know a very highly educated family who is moving their children to a different Catholic school because they sincerely believe the patron saint of the school has cared for their family over the years. There are literally Catholics who in this country wake up every single morning and go to Mass with religious orders that guard and treasure Catholic mysticism.

I was deeply moved by my own pilgrimage to Our Lady of Guadalupe and observe her feast day every year.  I also sequester myself on the Feast of the Holy Innocents because I mourn them.  And All Souls Day is a feast day we stringently observe in our family.

My 12 year old son still laments over a Cross of the Good Shepherd touched by Pope Francis that he lost a year ago.

Many of the commonalities cradle Catholics experience are cultural in nature. Not necessarily spiritual or driven by the faith. [/quote]

Another difference between cradle Catholics and converts is just how incredibly serious converts are about telling everybody how great they are at being Christian.

And cradle Catholics just don’t care to go explain to everybody all the Catholic things they do.

I mean, you continue to try to compare and contrast and say who is better and who’s not better and you lack any sense of humor… which clearly shows you’re not a cradle catholic

You need to say seven Hail Mary and two our fathers as penance.[/quote]

Keep backtracking.

I was born and raised in a country that is over 90% Catholic. My mother was of 13 children and I am one of 40+ grandchildren on my birth line.  I am a cradle Catholic.

You made a normative statement about cradle Catholics and mysticism. I push back on your statement as clearly and objectively wrong.  There are hundreds of millions of cradle Catholics that embrace the mystical side of the faith. Some of them are highly likely to be in your own parish.

You seem to be under the impression that only your experience of Catholicism applies. I am sorry that you don’t seem to understand the rich and beautiful diversity of the a Catholic faith that surrounds you. Perhaps the mystical parts of the faith are not for you. That is okay!!!  But what a shame that you dismiss and disparage your Catholic brothers and sisters for being different. [/quote]

You’re still missing the point nobody’s disparaging other Catholics we are just saying that culturally we are different. Neither is good or bad just different.

Did you keep coming back and arguing your point? It’s actually hilarious cause it totally shows and illustrates exactly what I’m talking about.

The whole social media trend is tongue in cheek. It’s not a serious debate.

Relax, stop preaching to people go help somebody.[/quote]

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