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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]He did a lot for gymnastics.   [/quote]

Right… that’s why gymnasts now are healthier, happier, not abused, more mature because they can continue their sport into their 20s… [/quote]

So you disagree that he did a lot for the sport?[/quote]

I’m saying who knows how many gymnasts quit because he fostered an abusive USA gymnastics culture from the top down. When you think of all the talented girls and women who could’ve been something but didn’t want to deal with abuse, I’m sure the sport would be even better. [/quote]

He squandered multiple generations of talent for the sake of his own selfish ego, and he conned and coerced parents into his scheme, and anyone who believes otherwise doesn’t know much about gymnastics.[/quote]

Squandered talent? Have you watched the last few olympics and all the gold medals?

With all due respect, I know people who trained at the Karolyi ranch so I do know. And people absolutely knew they were tough, knew what they were getting, but sent their kids anyway. [/quote]

Do you understand the depth of US talent that disappeared on an annual basis because of his abusive practices? Do you know how much deeper of a bench of 25-35 year olds we might have had in the last few Olympic cycles had he not broken them when they were just 10, 11 or 12 years old? How clueless are you about gymnastics behind the 5 women you see on tv every 4 years?[/quote]

When you are talking about high-level gymnastics, you are not looking at how many average gymnasts you can develop (how deep the bench is), you are looking at how many are truly competitive. A training regimen developed for top gymnasts will break your average gymnast. The gymnasts (and their parents) can decide to keep pushing, take it a notch down, or get out of the sport (there is space at many different levels). The history will say that he was Nadia's coach and there will be little space left for the names of the countless average gymnasts who trained under him. [/quote]

I’m not talking average gymnasts. I’m talking people who could have been their generation’s Suni, Jordan, and Jade but were destroyed by ignorant coaching practices. The training regimens developed by competent coaches today for top gymnasts does not break even “average” athletes nor those with talent.

The attitude you’re demonstrating is outdated and naive. Proper pacing, nutrition and healthy coaching practices are why we now have athletes who are level 10 who may not even find a team to compete on in college today but could have been national team members or Olympians 30 years ago. There are athletes training HOPES and junior elite today who are being brought up by a mix of coaches who follow the old-school ways of the Karolyis and those who are taking the opposite path. Do some research into new senior gymnasts and level 10 college recruits coming out of various programs and you’ll see a stark difference between the injury history and staying power of athletes from the different styles of training.

Thank god the sport is evolving beyond the stupid attitudes displayed by every-four-year fans and apologists.[/quote]

So… he’s a bad person because he coached in a different time when the training standards, and the sport itself really, were fundamentally different than they are today?

Do you hold all professionals from different eras to the same standards?  Are you prepared for the backlash against your own job someday when your profession and its associated standards inevitably “evolve”?

This is an absurd argument.[/quote]

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