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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]OK, jumping in here with a semi-relevant rant about Big 10 schools because I have experience attending both Penn State (undergrad) and Michigan (grad). I actually went to Penn State in part because of the size of the alumni network and the number of majors it offered...and ended up leaving in disappointment after one year because it was more of a party school than I wanted to attend. Professors were good but the student body was not very intellectual (though able to study and get good grades).  (BTW, SE Michigan/Ann Arbor has very similar weather to Pittsburgh and Penn State University Park - no difference in prep/weather tolerance is needed.)

I moved from Penn State to its then lower-ranked and much worse at football rival Pitt.  Pitt had a much better liberal-arts-focused environment, big city cultural amenities without being hardcore urban, and overall less of an entitled, suburban student body than Penn State University Park.  Student stats were lower but kids were working harder, probably due to being from less affluent families on average.  It might be different now since Pitt has improved a lot in terms of selectivity and student stats.  I assume that would increase the entitled affluent population.  Certainly Michigan is now becoming known as a school for rich kids, in part because it's become an acceptable safety school for the NYC/NJ elite.

I want to say that while Big 10 football culture is fun for many people, I feel it detracts from the academic environment in pervasive and harmful ways.  [b]We see evidence of this in this very thread with the irrelevant insults connected to the Michigan-Ohio State game that are unnecessarily hostile and have no value for the OP.[/b]  It also bleeds over into the workplace where people continue to make joky comments and have school-gear-wearing days and all kinds of irrelevant sport-related nonsense that make many feel silently excluded or just pestered if from a rival school.

I left Penn State University Park after one year with straight As because the liberal arts college was the "flunk into" catchall for other majors AND because of poor quality of dorm life.  Part of the poor quality of dorm life was related to football game day dorm vandalism and drunkenness.  ($4k of smashed up bathroom fixture damage due to a bowl game loss just as one example.) I also was not surprised at all by the later Sandusky scandal because sports fan people are often reluctant to in any way jeopardize their coach or team's success even when there are clearly unethical things happening. I am currently skeptical about Michigan State for my admitted DC because of all the sport-related scandals, drunkenness, and rioting they have had EVEN THOUGH I know a ton of impressive MSU grads that contribute enormously to the wellbeing of my state, city, and school district. And also, I think sports-related scandal is some of the worst part about being associated with the University of Michigan. I keep telling Michigan that when I get alumni surveys.

I would prefer all semi-pro NCAA sports to get evicted from the university environment but unfortunately it's become an entrenched American tradition. It really has nothing to do with higher education if you think through it.  Universities got started to educate clerics, doctors, and lawyers...while college sports grows out of a much later British private boarding high school tradition, then mainly American elite college 1900-present big school tradition.  It took about 800 years for team sports to get firmly grafted on to the Western university tradition - so does it really have to stick around permanently?  I honestly think it's become too toxic as college football and basketball have become semi-pro.  I'm not really bothered by the non-revenue generating "for love of the game" college sports.

Sports people really should keep their sports rivalry trash talk to themselves and stop barfing it all over those of us who don't care.  It isn't "all in good fun" - it's just pointless, divisive tribalism. America needs less of that!

I am sure that Ohio State is a good large university with many benefits.  I am sure that a student could do well there - as well as they would at Michigan or Maryland.  I feel that Michigan is somewhat more prestigious globally but also think that doesn't matter much and basically most "State U" schools have sufficient brand recognition where it matters regardless of rankings.  I personally would also look at Indiana-Bloomington if considering these schools.  I have recently been impressed with IU's programs, grad network, and campus.   Fit to the individual student and what the student does with the opportunity are what matters most.  I agree that out of state tuition for many schools make can make a "State U" a poorer value in many cases.  However, merit and need-based aid factor into each case differently.

Bottom line: be careful with the big football schools if your kid isn't a normcore sport lover and beer drinker.  Much socialization at these big football-loving schools relies on comfort level with these default interests. Faking that you enjoy sports and getting drunk is honestly kinda boring. And you'll be hearing the school rivalry trash talk for the rest of your life.[/quote]
Speaking of irrelevant and adding no value...your post is all about Penn State and Pitt when the title of the thread is Ohio State.[/quote]

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