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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Once again, this list, which is the same list as the WSJ list thread only pulls numbers "For undergraduate students receiving federal financial aid".

That is why the list doesn't mean what you think it means, OP.  Did you even bother reading that part?

There are lots of donut families who don't receive federal aid.

There are families who pay for college with 529.

Typically, state univ are cheaper and don't require that much federal aid.

So, once again, that metric is really only meaningful if you take federal loans.  The majority of students/families do not take out federal loans.

Now, do you understand why this list is meaningless?[/quote]

Once again you are totally backward and wrong.
This is for anyone who received/used any form of federal program - grant, subsidized loan, unsubsidized loan, plus loan.  
Donut families are likely to use Federal parent plus loans.
34% of undergraduate students receive a Pell grant alone. 
The Majority gets one or more of these.

Nobody cares about where Trump's son goes, what he majors, and what he makes after graduation.  
Probably making multi millions right after college working for his dad.
This data actually eliminates these kinds of people that often skew the real number for real people.

The data comes from IRS, loan servicing companies, etc. rather than 'self-reporting' numbers by schools.  
This is the most reliable income data worth referencing for low income, mid class, umc folks.[/quote]
Once again, the list only includes those who get federal money.  Lots of donut hole families and public state u students don't get that.

So the data is eliminating not just the Trumps of the world, but also UMC/MC families with zero federal money, and/or families who take private but not federal loans. Those exist, too.   We're a donut family. We applied for FAFSA. We got zilch. But, we are not taking out any loans because DC is going to an in state college with merit.

You can also see that the majority of the schools on that list are stupid expensive, so the students probably needed more financial aid.  The list also looks at income 10 years out, so that will include people who have gone on to masters degrees, law, medical, etc..

The list is mixing people who have graduate with just undergrad degrees.  It doesn't make any sense.

If you want to compare apples to applies, then compare just undergrad degree earners, not masters.

Data analysis is important.[/quote]

Read above.

"According to the National Center for Education Statistics, over 85 percent of students receive some form of financial aid"[/quote]
Yes, because the majority of loans is for graduate degrees, not undergrad.  The list is comparing apples to oranges.

https://educationdata.org/student-loan-debt-statistics

[quote]30% of undergraduate students borrow federal loans.
66% of graduate students borrow federal loans.[/quote]

The list you posted shows average cost for undergrad (and for instate for public), and income 10 years out, but it doesn't indicate whether that 10 yrs out includes people without graduate degrees or not.

Typically, engineers don't get graduate degrees, and the top 10 paying fields with those with just undergrad degrees are mostly engineers (9 out of 10, I think).  So, schools like CMU have a great ROI.

No one is disputing that graduates of elite institutions typically earn more than T50 down, but looking at the list without understanding the data behind it is a skewed view. That's why the list isn't all that meaningful for most people since most people don't go on to get graduate degrees.[/quote]

https://www.bestcolleges.com/research/facts-financial-aid/#:~:text=Data%20Summary,financial%20aid%20received%20federal%20grants.&text=The%20average%20federal%20grant%20award,2022%20from%20%245%2C190%20in%202001.

"51.8% of first-time, full-time undergraduate students who were awarded aid were awarded federal grants."

Already majority just for grants.  [/quote]

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