Reply to What dies it take for Russia to stop this war?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Honestly, I think “what it takes” is for every Russian city, town, and village to be a smoldering hole in the ground. The Russians are like cockroaches- they will find a way to survive even the end of days. Always have, always will. They will always win a war of attrition. [/quote]
Are you Ukrainian? This would explain your thinking, otherwise you are just a danger to society. [b]You have no idea how many Russians have nothing to do with this war and don’t support it - they just can’t do very much unfortunately.[/b]
Do you support all North Koreans or Iranians killed too? Sick! [/quote]

This is very flawed thinking. we know a lot about what Russians think.  Some very small number of citizens have spoken out against the war publicly.  Hundreds of thousands of men have left the country to avoid the military draft but by and large Russian men abroad have not used their position of privilege and safety to protest the war.  Some men in the military have protested  their lack training and equipment, but not their mission; torture, war crimes, attacks on civilian objects and looting by Russian military are widespread indicating that there is little to no opposition to these tactics up and down the chain of command.  Many Russian citizens , civilian and military families, express support for the war, using vile, genocidal, racist language. We know this from interviews and social media.

There is a great silent majority who 🙈🙉🙊, but the bystander is on the side of the perpetrator.   It doesn’tbmatter if those silent Russians don’t like the war if they are not publicly saying so.  No one can excuse them while Ukrainians are sitting in dark unheated house praying to hear from their kidnaped children and hoping to find the bodies of their disappeared relatives.[/quote]

You have no idea. Russian men who fled still have family in Russia you moron, and the said families will suffer if the men speak out.
Why don’t North Koreans protest, huh? Because they will be thrown in jail that’s why.
You are afraid to say anything remotely non PC for the fear of being cancelled yet you preach to Russians who are risking much more than just a job loss?!
Hypocrisy typical of someone who never lived in an authoritarian country [/quote]

This is the typical Russian excuse - “we cannot protest because we will suffer negative repercussions.”. What do you think the Ukrainians are suffering? Yes, protests begat beatings and jailings.  But, many Russians have been willing to suffer this in order to show that they do not agree with the perpetration of genocide on Ukraine. Other Russians - many more - have been willing, even eager, to take the spoils of war (looted washing machines and cell phones and TVs, etc.) and to take the white car payment for a military death.

By contrast, Belarussians were willing to protest in the streets and go to jail and be beaten. As a result, they have managed to keep the Belarussian Army from invading Ukraine along side Russian forces.  They would have managed to topple their dictator had not Putin decided to move Russian troops into Belarus and basically occupy Belarus. Lacking the strength to topple Russian forces, some Belarussians instead engage in sabotage and join the Ukrainian army. Yes, they have family also.

What do you think Iranian women suffer in protest? 
What do you think Chinese are going to suffer in protest?

[/quote]

You are even more clueless than I thought
Belarus protests ended by defeat of protesters
They don’t openly participate in war because Lukashenko isn’t crazy and knows it will be suicide for him and his country 
They may be forced to get involved though
gosh, you are such a typical clueless Westerner who has no idea what the cost of the protests is outside of democratic countries
[/quote].

I think you are the clueless one. Open Belarus protests ended when it became clear that the Russian military were poised to and did move into Russia. But the movement has gone underground and played a key role in keeping Belarus troops out of the war.  They have coordinated sabotage of train tracks in order to make trouble for Russian military movements. They report military movements to Ukraine and the West. They reach out to Belarus military and encourage them to refuse orders to attack Ukraine. They help Ukrainians who have been forcibly deported to Russia to return to the West and Ukraine thru Belarus. The Belarus opposition is the reason why, despite a lot of pressure from Putin, Lukashenko does not order the Belarus military to participate with the Russians against Ukraine: Lukashenko knows those orders would not be obeyed and the country would rise up against it.  Similarly, Russians do not try to make a puppet governemnt play in Belarus (like they wanted to try in Ukraine and as they have done historically) and replace Lukashenko with someone who will obey Russia because the opposition has shown the ability to organize continuous, nationwide mass protest and the Belarus people have made clear they will participate.  Belarussians are doing and risking what Russians will not and because of that they have prevented their country from going to war. As I said, Russians who fail to act, despite possible consequences, are on the side of the perpetrator of genocide and nothing excuses that.

I have every idea what the costs of protests outside the West are. I also have a very good idea what the cost of not protesting is. I studied, lived, worked and traveled widely in Eastern Europe and Russia over the last 3 decades, sometimes during conflict.  I have met and talked with leaders of people who rose up in protest and freed Czechoslovakia and Poland and Serbia (from Milosevic, and there are many who still protest the Vucic regime and genocidaires in Serbia).

Protest works even if it takes time and comes at a high cost for some. Russians who are silent are supporting the regime and genocide.  Mass Russian protest could end this war, but too many Russians are choosing their own personal comfort.  Russians outside Russia have access to accurate information about the war and could easily protest but they don’t because, in truth, they are OK with Russia’s actions as long as they can maintain their high standard of living. [/quote]

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