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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
Of course, converts are just as Jewish as anyone else is, from a religious standpoint, and they should be accepted in synagogues. But they are not part of the Jewish people, from an ethnic standpoint, and never can be. [b]That’s quite significant, given how much of the Jewish year is taken up with holidays and observances that celebrate or commemorate events in the history of the Jewish people. I’ve often wondered whether a convert would feel as though they can connect with those traditions, when it isn’t their history.[/b] [/quote]

Your worldview is small. How can a person commemorate events that weren’t in their history? Have you asked any of the millions of immigrants to the United States who happily celebrate the 4th of July and embrace our traditions? People who relocate to a new state / area and adopt the traditions there (move to the south, start caring about college football, etc).

Our temple has many folks who have converted to Judaism and they are active congregants.  Your world view is parochial and is one of the reasons people leave Judaism (not welcoming, tribalism). [/quote]

You’re not understanding my post. The existence of a Jewish ethnicity isn’t an opinion; it’s fact. I *never* once said that converts to Judaism should be anything but 100% welcomed.

But look at your own words: you said “embrace our traditions.” Implicit in that statement is the notion that immigrants are embracing traditions that aren’t their own. Have you asked immigrants how they feel about celebrating the 4th of July? My guess is that some feel totally comfortable with it, while others might still feel as though they’re not 100% part of everything, despite being American via naturalization. Viewpoints undoubtedly vary. That was my point. [/quote]

I think you're trying to split hairs here. How much of the Jewish year is taken up by ethnic commemoration that is not also religious? I'm not sure you've been paying attention to the holidays that we observe throughout the year. We aren't even a month past Shavuot, where everyone we're told everyone stood at Sinai - past, present and future Jews, converts, etc. We just read the Book of Ruth, where Ruth becomes part of Naomi's family and the ancestor of the Messiah. Converts become "b'nei Avraham v'Sarah" (children of Avraham and Sarah), adopted into the Jewish peoplehood. There are multiple times throughout the Torah that we are commanded not to oppress the ger (the stranger or convert). It doesn't say "don't oppress them religiously, but feel free to make them feel like ethnic outsiders."

I'm a different poster, but as for your attempt to pick apart "embracing our traditions" as some sort of signal that immigrants are never really part of us, have you ever been to a naturalization ceremony? July 4 is coming up and I'm sure you can find one near you to attend. It's very moving. "They" become "us" and those traditions are all of "ours" together.[/quote][/quote]
Sorry, I did the quoting wrong. I think I fixed it.[/quote]

You’re still not getting it. [/quote]

Really? You read the example of Ruth and then say a convert will never really be a Jew?[/quote]

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