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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

Where did I say it only applied to Christians?  I posted my own criticism of Ranting Atheist elsewhere, and he or she took it pretty constructively.[/quote]

Uh huh. Because you lobbed a real softball the one time you criticized Ranting Atheist. Whereas in the last page or two you've called other Christians hypocrites, un-Christian, and more. And that's just the last 2 pages on this thread, we haven't begun to talk about the other threads you posted on.[/quote]

The tone was consistent with the tone in my original post here.  And frankly I do not feel a personal obligation to provide equal time to each and every poster, nor do you.  I am concerned about the portrayal of Christianity on this site because I am a Christian.  but if you feel so strongly that each of us must post equal commentary on both sides of this debate, please demonstrate it by your actions.  I might learn something from your example.
[/quote]

I do appreciate the example you set by being nicer to atheists than I am. There are some good things to say about this. I think there is actually room for some discussion on this, however. As I intended with the quote from Luke 17, I don't believe being a Christian means being a total doormat. Challenging people on their behavior can, IMO at least, be much more productive than acting holier-than-thou (because that's off-putting) or simply letting yourself be a doormat.  Why not challenge people in order to get them to engage in self-reflection (assuming they're capable of that)?

Obviously being a hostile Christian is not a good thing, ever. But here's another interesting point for discussion: I truly believe that I haven't said anything meaner to atheist posters than you said to me, when you called me a hypocrite and so, so much more.

Which leads to a third point, which is how I am disappointed with the example you set towards your neighbors, i.e. the rest of us poor schlubs. [/quote]

Good, I have challenged people for their behavior.  I don't think this is terribly judgmental, and it suggests a practical positive step that Christians can take:

[quote]So given that we borrow religious traditions for secular use, and our religions borrow from other religions, why do we take offense when non-Christians borrow from Christian traditions? I am speaking about Christmas and the thread on Atheists and Lent. It seems incredibly inconsistent. I think we should imagine how easy it is for us to sign up for yoga, and realize that this may be the same way an atheist approaches our traditions. [/quote]

I don't think the tone of that is condescending or particularly negative.

My elaboration was this:

[quote]Sure. No one likes an asshole. But it's unfair to attack a whole group because it has some assholes in it. You would not attack all muslims because there are muslim terrorists, nor would you assume every breastfeeding mother is a BF crazy who shuns formula feeders.

But on top of that, there are many posters who suggest that it is inappropriate for non-religious posters of any temperament to participate in religious traditions, or to accuse them of being closet theists for doing so.

So my points are two:

1. It is unfair to treat any group as a unified whole, collectively responsible for the misbehavior of a few. 
2. If we religious people see no problem in appropriating, for secular purposes, the traditions of other belief systems, we should not discourage them from participating unless there is a specific and genuine theological problem (say receiving Catholic communion or attending a service closed to non-members).

To me, Christians are all called to spread the word. We can do that in three ways: 
*To teach our religious beliefs 
*To live by example 
*To welcome and support people who are open to exploring faith traditions

Of those,

*Teaching is really tough. There's not much room at the water cooler for someone to debate faith vs works, the role of women in Christianity, or the implications of the bible on the foundation of a moral economy.

*Living by example is certainly achievable, but it only has so much influence on a person's philosophical/religious journey. At some point they take a leap.

*The last, to welcome, is really important. Rarely do non-believers step into religion based on a logical analysis of theology. There is always a component based on community, feeling like they belong, seeing that the community positively impacts them and the world around them. They may never have a vision in their bed at night, but they may connect on an emotional level if they are shown love and support.

So this is why I believe it is wrong to cut off any person who wants to try out a religious tradition. You never know how it may affect them. I say welcome them and let them see for themselves if they find meaning in it.[/quote]

I didn't see that as judgmental or un-Christian.  I think it's a pretty solid statement in support of inclusiveness.

My comment to RantingAtheist is this:

[quote]While I have your attention, I do think they have a point, which is that atheists often mock the notion of faith. I think that there is enough data on humans to recognize that all of us make decisions based on factors other than reason. In fact, there may be data to suggest that free will itself is an illusion, therefore making moot any judgment about what is relevant in defining beliefs at all (the fields of biology, and also cosmology). Even an atheist can appreciate that, not that we shouldn't try hard to form good beliefs. Yes, they bring it on themselves by trying to prove God through reason, especially when they are not particularly well versed in the ground already covered by the philosophers. But it's OK for people to be at a different point in the discovery process. Everyone starts from scratch and has to work through these ideas as though they are new.

So I suggest that as long as theists approach proof of God with some humility, that atheists should counter in a respectful way. That way we all grow. [/quote]

I don't see this as particularly different in tone.  In each of the last two posts I acknowledged weaknesses on both sides and suggested a positive way forward.

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