Reply to Swarthmore/Wes VS Williams/Bowdoin

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]i don't think I've ever heard any knowledgeable person describe the vibe at Swarthmore and Wesleyan as similar.  Previous posters have outlined the differences pretty well.

When my kid was applying to SLACs, they applied to Wesleyan, Carleton, and Grinnell.  The dream school was Brown, which didn't happen. Wesleyan is closer in vibe to these schools than it is to Swarthmore.[/quote]

I agree. Your kid's list is a bit 'crunchier'. Others along the line might include Vassar, Earlham, Bard, Oberlin, Bates. (And even Sarah Lawrence, Bennington, or Hampshire ...) [/quote]

I mean, I guess -- Carleton and Grinnell may be more "crunchy" but academically they're far superior to the schools you just listed and more much aligned with the schools on OP's list.[/quote]

Here you go:

Carleton - 21% admitted, V: 660-750, M: 670-770
Grinnell - 19% admitted, V: 670-750 M: 683-788
Vassar - 25%, V: 680-750, M: 680-770
Bates - 14% admitted
Oberlin - 35% admitted, V: 650-690, M: 620-670
Bard - 57%
Earlham - 59%, V: 560-670, M: 550-660

The figures are from the Natl Center for Education Statistics. No test scores are listed for Bates or Bard. 
[/quote]

US News rankings:

Carleton 9
Grinnell 13
Vassar 22
Bates 25
Oberlin 37
Bard 62
Sarah Lawrence 71
Bennington 79
Earlham 92
Hampshire 141 [/quote]

Ignore anyone who tries to get you to think that admit rates or USNWR rankings are a good way to make your decisions. The median SAT scores at Carleton and Grinnell are in the 99th percentile. At Oberlin, it's the 96th percentile. Bard doesn't make their Common Data Set public, but they're ranked very close to Rhodes College, whose Median SAT score is also in the 96th percentile. How much of a difference do you think there will really be between a school with the average score in the 99th vs. the 96th percentile? The distances between colleges in USNWR rankings appear much larger than they are. There are many colleges that are very close to one another academically.[/quote]

Thank you. I'm the parent who originally listed these schools as of interest to a the same kind of student. Carleton, Grinnell and Vassar have the same SAT range, despite a 9pt difference. The Bowdoin kid I know applied to Bates. The Oberlin kid I know also applied to Bard. The Grinnell kid I know also applied to Earlham.

Hampshire, Bennington and Sarah Lawrence are all a bit different but it has to do more with culture (and they probably merit a look at financial stability which I think has been an issue with both Hampshire and Bennington but maybe I'm remembering wrong). [/quote]

The higher ranked schools generally also have much higher endowments, which translates into much greater financial resources and stability while also allowing for things like need blind admissions and better economic diversity.  A few years ago there were rumors that Bennington was even going bankrupt.  And, yea, I'd say 99th is better than 96th.  Why pay the same price for the 50th ranked school instead of the 10th?

No one is saying decisions should only be based on rankings, but they shouldn't be ignored either.[/quote]

Carleton is ranked #9, and the University of the South is #49. Someone might prefer the latter because: 1) it's $10k less expensive; 2) it's 32 degrees warmer there today; 3) it's closer to home; 4) it has a semester system instead of trimester; 5) they like the idea of being a big fish in a small pond; etc. And because no one is going to care once they get into the workforce.

[b]Oh, and how is the 99th percentile vs. 96th going to make any real difference in the classroom experience?[/b][/quote]

More false facts.

The entering class at the University of the South (Sewanee) in 2020 had middle 50-percent SAT scores from 1160-1340 and for Carleton 1340-1506.  In other words, the top quarter ar Sewanee is equivalent to the bottom quarter of Carleton.  This is around a 15 percentile point difference, not 3. [/quote]

Sorry, I should have made it clearer that the two paragraphs above were responding to two separate statements. Paragraph two was not referring to Carleton vs. University of the South, but rather to the claim that the 99th percentile vs. 96th percentile makes a big difference.

The difference between the median SAT scores at these two colleges is indeed larger, although 13.5 not 15; you can't use scores from the 2020-21 CDS because neither school required test scores that year. That 13.5 difference does likely make for a difference in the rigor of the classes, but not enough that a student in the top few percentiles couldn't get a strong education in Sewanee. Thus, the decision to value the five factors I mentioned over classmates with higher test scores wouldn't impact a student's future negatively. And again, no one is going to care which of the two they attended once they're in the workforce. They're going to care what was made of the opportunities they were given, how capable that student is, how well they work as part of a team, whether they put in the extra hours when necessary, etc.[/quote]

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