Reply to Outcomes - Prestige and Perceptions

Forum Index » College and University Discussion

Reply to "Outcomes - Prestige and Perceptions"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]The other way around is probably William and Mary in Virginia. [b]The school has seen falling applications,[/b] drops in rankings, etc. but is still perceived as very prestigious by older individuals.

Miami of Ohio and University of Vermont followed the same trajectory, only a generation earlier. At some point time catches up and colleges can't rely on historic perceptions to recruit students when they have nothing else to show for it. [/quote]

Incorrect.  From 2004-2005 to 2020-2021, William and Mary had an 81% increase in applications with increases in applications in 14 of the 16 years.  This year had a 23% increase in applications.

You are correct that William and Mary has had some decline in the USNWR national university ranking, where it went from 31 to 39 from 2004 to 2020, but it isn't alone.  UVA went from 21 to 26th during the same period.  USNWR is somewhat problematic for William and Mary because some of the ratings like financial resources are positively influenced by having medical schools and engineering schools, which William and Mary does not have, unlike almost all of the schools above it in the rankings.  It has, however, remained close to the top and is currently 4th in quality of undergraduate teaching. [/quote]

It not having an engineering school and medical school counts against it in the ranking, but it does so in reality as well, so you are only just supporting my argument.

This is the 21st century when healthcare and technology sectors are the driving forces of the economy. 
Schools like MIT and Stanford have become as renowned as Harvard and perhaps surpassed Princeton & Yale due to their strengths in engineering and sciences.

Miami of Ohio is another school that doesn't have a medical or engineering school. It's also ranked very highly in the "undergraduate teaching" list. That's a bit meaningless in terms of prestige though. Looks like W&M is facing the same issue.

UVA dropped in the same period, it's also weak in engineering and sciences. Again, just adding to my point.

Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan and Georgia Tech have either stayed the same, or increased. Same for UT-Austin.[/quote]

You can argue all you want that I supported your point, but when you start with the completely erroneous claim that applications have declined when in fact they have risen for 14 of the last 16 years and rose 23% this year, you have clearly undermined yourself and any subsequent claims you make.  You need to own your mistakes and misstatement rather than trying to deflect.

You don't get any facts straight before you post.  You say Miami of Ohio doesn't have an engineering school.  That is wrong.  You suggest Miami of Ohio and the University of Vermont were highly ranked (by US News) but they never were.  They appeared in a book called The Public Ivies from the 1980s, but that was really just the view of one person and was never reflected in US News.

[/quote]
I never stated that Miami of Ohio or University of Vermont were ranked highly by US News. I said it was held in high regard in the past, and has since fallen off and lost its luster. Pretty sure USNews did not even do rankings in the 1980s.

That you are referencing a highly referred to book regarding "Public Ivies", which many universities still today use in their advertising material, only further helps my point about how Miami of Ohio and UVM were held in high regard once. As you yourself pointed out, USNews ranks both Miami and UVM rather low today, nowhere close to their supposed "Public Ivy" peers. Older generations will still consider Miami a prestigious school but middle-aged individuals today don't.

W&M is going through the same generational change. Middle-aged adults today consider it to be a prestigious school. It's falling out of popularity rapidly with younger adults. When those young adults become middle-aged, they will not view it as a prestigious school. Of course, the middle-aged adults that are then seniors still might, but they will be retired and will have no influence in the job market.

That is, of course, if W&M continues on its current trajectory. But the future outlook for small, public liberal arts colleges isn't very good. It may as well privatize, or pseudo-privatize as UVA has. [/quote]

As someone else pointed out, you started your long post with yet another factual error.  US News did start rankings in the 1980s, and it started a couple of years before the publishing of Public Ivies book.  Public Ivies represented the opinion of one man on schools that he thought might provide an Ivy-like experience.  It was not a consensus view on prestige.  US News did not rank Miami of Ohio and UVM that high at any time.

[/quote]
[b]Why don't you state where UVM and Miami were ranked in the 1980s by USNews then? Go ahead and post your holy grail USNews ranking of Miami and UVM from the 1980s, and we'll see which college has declined massively and which hasn't.

Of course you won't, because USNews ranked Miami and UVM much higher than they are ranked today - today they are ranked 100+.[/b]

[/quote]

I only have the data for colleges that have made the top 50 (and they didn't go that deep in early years)

Miami was #46 as recently as 2018 and is #49 today.

I don't have any data showing UVM as ever top 50.  Can you provide?

The colleges that have fallen the most from 1984 are UIUC from #8 to 50+, then back to mid-40s.  UMich has been as high as #7.  MIT has been as low as #11.  GW, WPI, Syracuse, Rutgers and Texas A&M have all been in the top 50 at one time or another.

What's my point?

Ranking are wack to the point of meaninglessness.  [/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics