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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]DH was a tenure track prof at AU 7 years ago - pay was less than a public school teacher and the benefits were way worse. We had to pay hundreds of dollars a month each for our kids health insurance - basically the full cost it was insane. They added ' partner benefits' but what benefits? Basically you have to have another job to survive in this area - write a textbook for freshman classes (high yield to make a lot of money, but not scholarly work), deliver newspapers- something. Marry rich?[/quote]

Professors delivering newspapers on the side? That is sad  :cry: I hate how little we value education in this country.[/quote]

We value education, just like we also value water. But the value of a product/service is dependent on supply and demand. There is no shortage of well educated people who wants to stay in school and teach/research rather than move on to a career in the world. The reality of this is great: it will drive more such people to seek jobs elsewhere. It also allows the schools to be highly selective in who they accept to teach, improving both productivity and standard of teaching.

[/quote]

I don't know how true this is. It seems that universities have figured out they can save money by hiring more adjuncts and paying them a pittance (3-5k a course, no benefits) then tenure track professors who are paid at least a MC salary 70k + and benefits.

At the same time, tuition has been sky rocketing due to great salaries paid to administrators (who do...what exactly? push paper around). That is not valuing education.[/quote]

Well, if an adjunct professor delivers education quality that meets the standards of the university, then [b]what additional value do tenure-track professors bring[/b]? A separate question, is the skyrocketing tuition and admin salaries - yes we all should be outraged that colleges and universities are no longer mainly focused on education. Go visit any big state school - it's run like a luxury resort, with new buildings, new equipment, lavish facilities and landscaping. This is the direct result of easy student loans.  I was in college back in the 90s - twenty years later, I don't even recognize the school from campus pictures anymore. I never dreamed of going to a out-of-state school unless I got merit scholarship - I was a pretty horrid student so in-state was pretty much my only choice. Most of my fellow classmates either worked their way through, got help from parents, or a combination thereof. The financial aid office was a small part of the admin building back then. [/quote]

Tenure track professors bring grant money. They don't teach very many classes per semester. Unless it's at a teaching college (less desirable for many but not all), a tenure track professor isn't really hired for their teaching. [/quote]

The adjunct-vs-tenured discussion was surrounding the topic of teaching. Again, if the economic benefit of tenured professor justifies their higher compensation, then the universities would favor them. The key here is to realize that phrases like "I hate how little we value education" show a misplaced sense of injustice. [/quote]

How is it misplaced when, as a future consumer, I plan to spend upwards of $75k a year to send each of my kids to college and I see their professors being paid as little as $3-5k per course? That discrepancy doesn't seem completely NUTS to you?[/quote]

The market sets how much you pay for that education, and how much the professor gets paid for providing that education. If you don't think the university is worth $75k a year, you won't send your kids there, right? If the professor's labor is worth more than $3-5k per course, the university would pay more than that, right? How much is a gallon of water worth to you right now? I agree that our education system is wasteful and has incorrect priorities, I STRONGLY agree with this observation. However, this did not arise out of lack value placed on education. Similarly, the fact that bottle water sells for more than gasoline yet costs so little at the source isn't because of how little we value water. 
[/quote]

NP. I read that PP's point was that it's clear we don't value education as a society because that money is not going to professors. It's going to the "brand." It's not the education that matters to people, it's the name on the diploma, similar to the name on a pair of jeans or the logo on a car.[/quote]

exactly. those 75k/year you will be paying pays for a trustworthy Xth tier label that says "i am smarter and more interesting than those wearing label from X+1, ... n tier college".

it has almost nothing to do with who teaches what and even what is being taught, much less learned. knowledge has never been so free and plentiful; one can learn almost everything on his own.[/quote]

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