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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]A teacher around here can expect to make $90k a few years in for essentially 9 months of work (given the endless summers plus all the other holidays). That means average salaries are really more like $120k on an annualized basis. Plus the value of the pension that will easily bump it to a $130-140k equivalent. Plus generous benefits of all sorts. Pretty good for a union job with 100% job security and where you get to go home at 3pm![/quote]

Where is “around here”? How many years are “a few years in”?

This ranks right there with the “retire after 20 years, free healthcare, union negotiated” posts. [/quote]

Oh give it up, that trope about the underpaid teacher is getting seriously old.

https://www.aei.org/articles/the-truth-about-teacher-pay/

[b]&quot;It is clear that the widely cited 21% teacher salary gap is a meaningless statistic.[/b] Furthermore, predictions generated by [b]the underpaid-teacher hypothesis fail to be borne out by the data: [/b]Teachers rarely quit their jobs and, when they do, rarely cite low pay as the reason; only a tiny percentage of teachers’ salaries come from second jobs, and that percentage has been falling over time; there is no generalized teacher shortage; most teachers live comfortable middle-class lives; and teaching is not more stressful or time-consuming than the average job. Over and over again, we fail to find evidence that teachers as a group are underpaid.

[b]&quot;It is more likely that workers in public education are on average overpaid, in the sense that they could not earn as much in the private sector.[/b] Studies of teachers who switch jobs and comparisons of teaching to other occupations with the same BLS skill requirements suggest that the teacher wage penalty is close to zero. If that is true, then incorporating fringe benefits as measured in the NIPA would boost total teacher compensation about 18% above private-sector levels. This premium comes before adding the value of job security and the predictability of regular raises, which economic theory predicts would be offset by lower wages.&quot;[/quote]

&quot;If that is true, then [b]incorporating fringe benefits as measured in the NIPA would boost total teacher compensation about 18% above private-sector levels.[/b] This premium comes before adding the value of job security and the predictability of regular raises, which economic theory predicts would be offset by lower wages.&quot; [/quote]

Just because they're fairly compensated doesn't mean the whining will stop anytime soon. Always some other gripe  :roll: [/quote]

Again… please point to the whining? 
As teachers, we know what whining sounds like. I haven’t read any on this thread. There is a difference between “whining” and “explaining.” [/quote]

Then please actually &quot;explain&quot; it instead of just complaining. So far I've only seen a lot of griping how you think you deserve more money. Meanwhile the study cited above shows that teachers are actually compensated quite well relative to other comparable professions.[/quote]

Actually, if you review this thread, you’ll realize that pay is NOT the major concern of teachers posting here. It’s workload. If you reread, you’ll find teachers explaining they work 3-4 extra hours a night, or all day on Saturdays, etc. They explain that they have half an hour a day allotted for all of the “extras” of teaching: planning, grading, attending meetings, attending trainings, responding to emails, updating data, etc. In fact, you will find at least two different teachers saying that they would prefer a more balanced workload than more pay. I do see posts in which teachers say they would appreciate compensation for the 20 or so extra hours a week, perhaps in the form of overtime. I also see teachers say they think they are fairly compensated for what people THINK the job is, but not necessarily for what it REALLY is.

I don’t see complaining or “griping.” I see people trying to explain to non-educators what the job is like and why people are quitting in droves.

As for the study, that’s once voice. I read the whole thing. It’s remarkably opinionated, and thanks to Covid, woefully out of date. All references to a perceived teacher shortage are no longer relevant because of the tremendous hit Covid had on this profession. [/quote]

Teaching is no longer a profession that is attractive for the reasons that it once was, which is why there is a shortage. There is no way to pinpoint any one reason and I am sure that the reasons change according to the region. However, there is a shortage and no one can deny that, but how they chose to address it and whether those solutions are successful remains to be seen. The only way that I see to change the tide is to limit the job choices of women so they are again forced to choose from only a couple of careers because let's face it - that's the reason that the profession is dominated by women and also suffers lower than average pay when considering the education required. [/quote]

The solution is to lesson the workload. That’s the *only* solution. Teachers should get at least half their work day to do the behind-the-scenes work required of the job. Planning, grading, report writing, trainings, correspondence, meetings… right now teachers are supposed to do all of this on their off-hours. It’s unacceptable. Reports from people fleeing the profession rarely mention pay as the reason for leaving. They mention workload and disrespect (from students, parents, and admin). Fix those.

We have plenty of people qualified and able to teach in this country. They just aren’t teaching because they made the easy decision to quit. Get them back by offering better conditions.[/quote]

I think that each class should have 2 FT teachers that only teach core courses with specials and recess being first 1.5 hrs and last 1.5 hrs. So for example my kids ES starts at 830-240. One teacher would be responsible for 7-130. She has 1.5 hours to do grading, prep, IEPs, transitions to AM announcements and has the kids special first period plus 1st recess.  The other core teacher comes in at 930-4. They do core work and lunches between 930-100. 1-230 is recess, special, and dismissal. Crossing guards should be a full-time position associated with the school and they perform recess oversight. The latter shift teacher has 1hr plus a bit to do grading, IEP, meetings, etc.  This would also solve daycare and transportation dilemma for a lot of younger teachers. 
I also think teachers should be allowed to obtain exemptions for their kids to attend their employer county schools, if desired. I know some districts allow this already but teachers arent just unmarried single women anymore and sometimes that isnt apparent from the expectations placed on teachers. [/quote]

Teaching when I lived in Long Island it seem to get hired nearly all new hires grew up in school district. Long Island is a high cost area. Single teachers whose parents live in town live at home. They are highly paid considering they made a great salary, had zero housing expense. Back in the day, the ones I knew got houses in Hamptons, for summer, did bartending or stuff for extra cash. Some even lifeguarded at beach as a NYS employee it adds to pension. then they get married at 30 with a boatload of cash and many just bought a house in the school district. parents nearby, built in baby sitting and kids go same schools they teach at.

today that model is broken. Teachers need more pay for todays model. Or we go back to old model.    [/quote]

I see nothing wrong with that old model; indeed I see it still happening where I live in Fairfax County with many of our beloved teachers.
 I don’t think my kids will be teachers but it would not be awful if they got jobs around here after college and moved home to save lots of money and then buy a house. The tide is turning and it’s no longer shameful to live with your parents in young adulthood.[/quote]

Right but there is some benefit to kids who have teachers who have been in the profession for a long time. Just like any position there is institutional knowledge and most people get better with time in their position. Young unmarried women and men do well in the position because they dont have outside obligations outside of their own hobbies and desires. You cant have employment be untenable for 25-50 and only be great for those &gt;25 without kids or &gt;50 empty nesters. [/quote]

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