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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
In the dictionary, maybe, but IRL there are many nuances in these words.  Just take "Catholic"  which can be very different based on ethnicity or whether or not you went to Catholic schools.  I know Catholics who were tortured by the threat of mortal sin when they were kids and others who didn't take it very seriously.  Irish Catholics who went to Catholic school had a very different sense of their religion than Italian Catholics who did not -- yet both types could probably recite all the prayers and tell you what all the sins were.  There are "stereotypes" of religion that simply don't hold for every individual who practices a particular religion.[/quote]

Sigh, I think it's well established there are vast differences among what is practiced as a religion; there is no disagreement here. You and others can stop giving examples of how different people practice religion differently.

Let me ask you this question: is a spark plug the same as a religion? Both are nouns. Is your answer yes, no or maybe? If you answer yes or maybe, we can end our conversation here as there is no sense continuing.

If you answer no, they are not the same, then you have implied that the words "spark plug" and "religion" have some inherent meaning that make them different and not the same. This meaning that you are ascribing to the words are what makes these words useful as part of the English language. The meaning of words are not determined by individuals like you or I, but by group consensus through contemporary use. Therefore, just because you or all your friends feel that "Catholic" in real life may refer to baked goods, doesn't make it so. A majority of our collective population have to agree. The meaning of words as accepted by the collective are contained in the dictionary, which is a living and evolving record of the meaning we collectively give to words. New meanings of words as broadly accepted and used are added all the time. However, you do not as one person or even a small group of individuals get to make up new meanings of words and expect others to agree. In other words, your discount of a word's meaning as described in the dictionary is irrational and not conducive to a meaningful conversation.

The definition of "religion" and "catholic" as it appears in a dictionary are just that, a definition. It is not a stereotype.

McLeanAtheist[/quote]

Did not need this lecture on the difference between a definition and a stereotype.  The point is, a dictionary definition does not automatically dictate meaning in everyday life.  Just because a person doesn't live up to the narrow dictionary definition of "Catholic" doesn't mean you can tell them they are not a catholic.

I'm beginning to think that the reason you have more respect for the religious fundamentalist position is that you are a kind of "fundamentalist" yourself, as in preferring clearcut answers and dismissing that which does not fit in that narrow purview. [/quote]

You absolutely needed the lecture, because in your previous post you insisted that we deviate from dictionary definition of religion, because in real life people's actual practices do not fit those "stereotypes". Conflating the meaning of these two different words is again not good for productive conversation. Your listener/reader are constantly left guessing what you really mean.

The definition of religion is very broad, by the way, it is not narrow at all. It encompasses all of the different belief systems that have come and gone and those are still here being practiced. I don't understand why you feel that accepting the dictionary's definition of religion becomes such a problem. Maybe what you mean is that people are spiritual, which encompasses even more, including religion, or simple quiet reflection. But simple quiet reflection is not religion, and calling it religion doesn't make it so. Similarly, calling someone who believes God is a metaphor a Christian is also incorrect. This is a simple statement of fact which you are free to disagree with, but you'd be wrong.

As for being a fundamentalist, I am an engineer by training and now a small business owner. My bullshit meter is pretty sensitive, I seek to find good solid answers where possible, while understanding that there are somethings with no good answers for. That said, I am not forcing any artificially narrow definition or view of anything, I am simply imploring you and others to call a spade a spade and not a diamond. My insistence on this is to simply sticking to facts where the facts are readily available, rather than wishful thinking. This is practical rationality, not fundamentalism.

McLeanAtheist[/quote]

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