Reply to Bill Maher explains the Middle East to Gen Z: Can anyone really dispute the facts?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]To my read of the original meaning Zionism is the view that there should be a Jewish state across the land that is Israel as well as the West Bank, Gaza and Lebanon.

I also think there is an element of the view that it’s okay to kill, maime, and slaughter in a disproportionate attack on others.  And an unwillingness to accept that fact that by establishing Israel there was harm done to others.

Maybe there is a different term?   Not sure what to use in its place. Have any suggestions?   I certainly am not anti Jewish.  I am also not anti Israeli.  I am anti anyone who think what Israel is doing is ok.

[/quote]Actuallly, you skipped over Jordan and Iraq.

"From the river to the sea" was originally an early Zionist slogan, with the river being the Euphrates." See also their early ditty: "Two sides has the Jordan; this one's our, and that one too."

I am not sure that Lebanon figured into the earliest Zionist dreams, but later it became apparent that Israel lusted over the waters of the Litani.[/quote]
Yet you live in a country that believes in Manifest Destiny and spread from ocean to ocean.  Why are you ok with that?[/quote]

We now provide billions in aid to Indian nations plus they are full citizens with rights to come and go from reservations without checkpoints and harassment. We also don't build houses on their reservation. Plus they get to vote and have US passports.

Will Israel promise this to Palestinians living in Gaza and the West Bank (and those living on any additional land they occupy in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan) after all of this is over? I doubt it.

I believe Israel has a right to exist now because (a) it's there and (b) millions of humans live there. However, I believe Israel's actions are abhorrent since they do not afford Palestinians that same luxury (ie the right to exist). The rebuttal will surely say something like "well Hamas started it on 10/7" and therein lies the crux of the issue. That is not when the problem started. It began when original Israeli settlers/Zionists kicked Palestinians off of their land (both legally and illegally) and proceeded to not acknowledge this original sin, but to double down and blame the people they had kicked out. I vividly remember being told these lies growing up even here in the US. We were taught about the holocaust almost every year and the story would end with the fact that after the war the Jewish people returned to their "homeland" to make the "desert bloom". It was not until I visited the region that I learned that others lived on this land before them and had left flourishing farms/orchards behind as a nice head start.

I honestly don't know how people in the region can ever heal from the trauma they have suffered in this latest infliction of horrors. However, I believe it needs to begin by acknowledging the reality of history and real facts (i.e. not Bill Maher's version).

As far as using the term "Zionist": to me that means the right to a homeland based on a claim from thousands of years ago and without regard for others that lived there in the meantime. It's not a term I associate with antisemitism and when people do try to assert that it is, I think they are deflecting and trying to turn attention away from the horrible things Israel is doing now.

Now to say, we have a right to live here because this is where we were born or immigrated to and we are humans - yes. I agree with that. But at the same time, these people have to acknowledge and respect the other humans involved too.  [/quote]

So you are saying since the government seized my ancestors property years ago, therefore I should in protest raise an army, commit terror attacks, and kidnap and murder my neighbors children in protest. Brilliant plan. [/quote]

This is exactly what the Israel did.[/quote]

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