Reply to There is no housing crisis in MoCo or most of the DMV for that matter

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]And here we have the same folks who can't have a reasoned discussion on a similar thread come back to dig up this one to try to keep at top of mind a justification for increased "missing middle" densities in detached SFH neighborhoods [b]via zoning redefinition end-arounds that avoid the level of input of residents of those neighborhoods that standard processes would entail.[/b]

But, hey, they want what they want, and who cares if they take it from someone else or if it ends up in places that won't have the infrastructure to support the additional residents?  Gotta make it seem like a crisis to get that done!  And please don't consider alternatives that aren't in exactly those places -- those wouldn't work for the kinds of developers they are supporting!  :roll:

Anyone with such ideas or objections must be ridiculed with strawman hyperbole and other rhetorical employment of logical fallacy.[/quote]

Eh? There is a legal process. The process includes public input. The county is following the process.[/quote]

That's an insincere response, and you know it. How often does the county [i]redefine[/i] away zoning such as they are currently pursuing?  The normal process would [i]re-zone[/i] properties, which would require more significant input from the individual neighborhoods to be rezoned.

Knowing they wouldn't get enough support there, "missing middle" supporters have adopted the zoning text amendment approach.  But even that they've messed with by not changing the entirety of R60 zoning and the like, but by limiting the changes to certain geographic areas -- essentially the neighborhoods for which they would otherwise need to use the more community-inclusive/responsive process.

And this is on top of recent redefinitions of many corridor neighborhood edges into separate "neighborhoods" (or shifting them to adjacent already-higher-density areas) so that they could apply zoning policy just to those without the same neighborhood input.

I mean, one can edge closer to the nuclear option all one wants -- that's technically part of the "legal process," too, but then we end up with hyper-polarized, junk government and Trump SCOTUS appointees.  Have you learned nothing, or do you find your policy pursuit important enough to minimize the voices of those most directly affected?[/quote]

I'm curious what the actual real world difference is between what is happening and what would happen if individual properties were rezoned?  My understanding is that the individual process requires sending something through US mail to adjacent owners letting them know what is happening and telling them how they can provide feedback.  That is the only thing that (maybe) didn't happen here.  However there was a strong public engagement plan for the Thrive plan as well as a LOT of public messaging about what is going on, as well as public hearings.  So the argument you are making is that something would have been different had a couple hundred residents received a post card in the mail?[/quote]

Again, that's an insincere response.  And that drives ever farther from rational discourse.

Of course it makes a difference to have that direct, physical notification.  In such cases, a greater proportion of those participating in providing feedback are from those most directly affected areas.  The time available at hearings does not become as dominated by those [i]already lined up in support[/i] of a development application or initiative.  The notice also generates involvement earlier in the process.

What we have, here, are what should be those local processes handled county-wide and with less certain timely awareness.  Those pushing for it are still lined up, but not only can dominate the early interaction, where significant change is more possible, but also can pull involvement, with the more generally diffused notifications across the county, from areas that aren't directly affected, again minimizing the input of those who are.

Thrive carried a similar engagement paradigm that limited relative input from those most directly affected.

If you think that those most directly affected are not those living in these neighborhoods or that they should not have greater say about changes more directly affecting their neighborhoods than those not in thier neighborhoods, then we simply disagree.[/quote]

First, please stop calling my thoughts "insincere."  It was sincere.  And it is rational to inquire about the actual impact of a certain process on the opportunity for meaningful feedback from the community.

It would be helpful to know, in a data driven way, if a postcard in the mail would have increased resident involvement in a meaningful way.  I don't have the time at the moment to track down what outreach was conducted by the County to what geographic areas at what time, nor do we know what proportion of people providing input were notified by what method.

It is not grounded in a solid foundation (though I won't say "insincere") to assert that the County is following the process that it is BECAUSE of an intention to limit community awareness and opportunity to provide input.  That assertion runs counter to many actions the County has taken, including a robust and frequently updated website and blog....none of which is required by zone/ordinance.  
[/quote]

And none of which provides the affected neighborhoods the differentially greater, meaningfully early-in-the-process input that they should have.  How many folks independently decide to check county websites to see if there is something new affecting them?  That's part of the reason, if not the entirety of it, that the direct postcard notification is supposed to be employed. If you don't get that, you effectively don't get invited to the table.  Of course those pushing for the change are enamored of the relatively unfettered influence they gained with pursuit of a zoning text amendment.

I used the word "insincere" because I meant that.  You clearly have a grasp of the processes.  Anyone with such would already know the relative deficiencies I'd laid out and how that might negatively impact the voices of those in those more directly affected communities.  The natural conclusion is that you are posting simply to undermine the thought, rather than to provide a rational counter (or, *gasp*, acknowledge the point). [/quote]

I think that at this point, taking all of that into account, it’s very important that we closely monitor and widely disseminate information about any ZTA in the future to make sure that neighborhood associations and listserves are acutely aware of every step along the way.

Fool us twice…[/quote]

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