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Reply to "NYT and school closures "
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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][twitter][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis. [/quote] + a billion. Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.[/quote] Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work. [/quote] Worried you will lose your job?[/quote] What?[/quote] What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?[/quote] My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020. Some of you are kind of crazy. [/quote] Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not? [/quote] And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents. [/quote] Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?[/quote] Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something. [/quote] You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you. [/quote] I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here. [/quote] It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home. [/quote] Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger. [b]The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that. [/b] (And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.) [/quote] How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools? [/quote] Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now. [/quote] Exactly. Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them. Unless you have ulterior (political) motives. [/quote] So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?[/quote] I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it. [/quote] At least you admit your bias.[/quote] Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes. [/quote] You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach. It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.[/quote] OMG, I'm a DP and you are just gone. Out there. You don't want solutions. You want blood. Honestly, seek therapy. This anger won't help anyone. Not your kids. Not the school system. This kind of anger will lead to stupid decisions that make the situation worse. Our kids need help. There are already teacher shortages. We need more, good teachers and parents like you will drive any decent ones out of the system. We need more funding for schools and more services for our kids. Channel your energy into that. Otherwise, you are just a worthless blowhard.[/quote] I’m touched you’re so worked up. Maybe next time you will do the right thing and advocate for schools to stay open knowing now how awful your emotionally driven, factless opinions got us to where we are. Be the change.[/quote] DP. The evidence wasn’t there. The people pushing to open no matter what in summer 2020 were irrational. “Emotionally driven, factless opinions” describe it perfectly. [/quote] Tell that to all the schools that opened in Fall 2020. If you didn't want to see the evidence, that's on you. But it was there. But you can't rewrite history to suit yourself.[/quote] They opened without evidence. [/quote] Yep, so much of the type of hindsight is 20-20 BS on this thread is a waste of time. This virus kept changing and continues to do so. It's what they do. To say they "knew" anything in Fall of 2020 is ridiculous. I actually do think schools should have reopened in person much earlier than they did in this area, but to pretend we had certainties? BS.[/quote] “Knew” in this context means “knew” to a reasonable degree of confidence. I would think that anyone who is old enough to be a parent is old enough to have discovered that there are no certainties in life. [/quote] You “knew” without substantial data to back it up. Other people were looking for actual data and/or CDC guidelines. Faulting people for being rational is ridiculous. [/quote] What are you talking about? Point to the data showing young children dying or getting seriously ill en masse at ANY point during the pandemic. You can’t, because that wasn’t happening, ever. The ABSENCE of such cases was all the “substantial data” needed to determine that the priority should have been to keep life as normal as possible for the kids, who were not in danger, and to instead focus on keeping the elderly and other vulnerable members of society as isolated as possible for their own protection.[/quote] In late summer 2020, we did not have substantial data demonstrating that it was safe. There was IIRC just one study of a small daycare centers. [/quote] You responded to my post but you did not address the point. [b]The absence of data showing children becoming seriously ill WAS the data. [/b] You seem to think it’s reasonable to demand a study to prove that continuing to engage in an historically safe behavior will continue to be safe. In actuality, it is reasonable to assume a behavior that has been safe in the past will continue to be safe unless there is new evidence indicating harm. There was no such evidence to justify keeping the schools closed. At no point was Covid killing kids.[/quote] That’s not how science works… [/quote] Jesus Christ. It’s exactly how one is supposed to apply the scientific method. Generate a hypothesis (covid is gonna kill us all!), make observations (covid is killing old people and people with underlying immune, respiratory, and heart conditions), interpret results (there is a very clear and direct exponential trend of severity of outcomes from covid infection as a function of age), draw conclusions (this virus is dangerous to old people but not to kids), and in this case, suggest/implement policy (keep the schools open). So I suppose you are correct in that “that’s not how science works” because we have an entire generation of people who don’t understand how to correctly utilize the scientific method making decisions because SCIENCE.[/quote] We did not studies on how it affected kids - particularly those crammed into tight spaces en masse - at that point. No observation. No data. [/quote] This is tiresome. Do you need a study before you walk out your front door in the morning?[/quote] No, but I’m not responsible for the health of millions of people. [/quote] In countries with universal healthcare and therefore where policymakers are actually "responsible for the health of millions of people" .... they did everything possible to OPEN schools in September 2020.[/quote] So are you pushing for universal healthcare here? [/quote] In principle I would, in practice I see the disaster in universal education in this country because so many prioritize politics over sound policy. Fire anyone who was responsible for stealing years of education from millions of children. That should be step number 1 in fixing this.[/quote] And then what? Who will backfill those positions? What do you want their replacements to do? [/quote] And then what? Who will backfill those positions? [b] PLENTY OF BETTER QUALIFIED PEOPLE OUT THERE -- YOU HIRE THEM.[/b] And then what? THEY FOCUS ON THEIR JOB: EDUCATING CHILDREN. [/quote] Are there? There is a massive shortage of teachers and teachers unions where the ones pushing closure the hardest [/quote] DP. Yep, and with parents like the ones on this board and all the other politically-motivated nonsense going on right now, who is going to want to fill those positions? Answer = no one. [/quote] Which is why we need to fire anyone in the unions, boards and districts who made this disaster take place. Untill that happens it's all mere empty words.[/quote] If we fire people, and no one wants to fill the positions, how does this help kids???????????[/quote] It doesn’t help kids. PP DGAF about public school kids. It does hurt public schools (and our kids). It gives the pro-voucher clowns more excuses for why taxpayers should subsidize their private school education. [/quote] You don't care if your kids were hurt. They were sacrificial lambs in the grand experiment. So don't pretend you care now.[/quote] I absolutely care then and I care now. And I see the way to help kids now is to support schools, not tear them down for ulterior political motives. [/quote] What specifically are you doing to support schools other than accusing others of wanting vouchers? [/quote] That’s certainly the goal for some posters here - they clearly admitted it. Just gave my personal list of ideas. [/quote] Why are you attacking ideas you don’t agree with? None of us is responsible to make any of it happen any way, right? [/quote] Because vouchers won’t fix public schools. [/quote] We know you don’t have any good ideas. So your opinion is irrelevant. You’ve done enough damage.[/quote] I haven’t done any damage and I already posted a list of things we can do. Vouchers aren’t on the list because they hurt public schools/students. [/quote] School closures also hurt kids, but you supported those whole heartedly. You have zero credibility.[/quote] I wasn’t pushing for them to stay virtual, but I did acknowledge that the school districts were taking a reasonable approach. I supported the teachers who were doing the best they could under crazy circumstances. Vouchers will hurt our public school kids. You want to hurt them more? [/quote] We might have to think outside the box to undo all the damage people like you inflicted on them. Are you prepared to do that? Or do you want to keep banging your head against the wall wondering why the same things fail again and again?[/quote] Defunding public schools isn’t the answer no matter how you slice it. No vouchers. [/quote] Ok, you get but one vote.[/quote] It’s the same vote for anyone who cares about public schools. [/quote] Yes we know how much you care about the schools and kids. That was obvious 2020-21. Stop the lies.[/quote] We, the people who have been showing up for years before the pandemic? Who have been engaged and putting in the work? We care more about kids than the complainers who never took any interest in school until the pandemic and who now just want vouchers to subsidize private school. [/quote] Let me ask you this - how much of your time did you personally spend to improve public schools before the pandemic? I don't mean PTA or fundraisers. Did you spend time tutoring kids, helping with after-school programs, assisting teachers with administrative tasks, or anything like that? Tell me what you did. [/quote] I did help teachers in the classroom (back when it was allowed) and ran an after-school activity. In addition to PTA roles and fundraising. [/quote] ^ and I volunteered on a school district advisory committee. [/quote] As another person who showed up and gave my time to support public schools before the pandemic, when I read these discussions, I sometimes feel like a spouse who was cheated on by a partner who has broken off the affair, never apologized, but is now angry that I'm struggling to forgive a betrayal they refuse to discuss. I'm the bad guy in every way, and it's 100% my fault I can't move past this unacknowledged breach of trust. [/quote] This is so freaking dramatic [/quote] Trivializing - Check. Another hallmark of abuse.[/quote] The teachers at your school didn't abuse you, and didn't betray you. They're the ones who were told to wfh, and are the ones picking up the pieces now. You might want to examine your own relationships with schools and why you feel they have a spousal responsibility to you. It's our job, not a marriage[/quote] Why do you think this is about individual teachers? It's about public education - an institution responsible for educating children. But thank you, denying the harm and blaming others are two more characteristics of abuse. [/quote] It's just wild to me. Our kids are supposedly in crisis and yet all these parents are more concerned about having their feelings validated and restored. I'm sorry but I just don't get it and don't think it's where time and energy should go[/quote] Of course you don't. You want to keep hiding being the lie of "We didn't know any better!" When you can be honest then we can move forward.[/quote] Sorry, but we didn't know any better. I'm glad I didn't go back until I was vaccinated. That's honest, you just disagree with it. The only difference is that I'm still in my under resourced public school every day trying to make up for the lost year, while you want validation from internet strangers. I'm sorry we don't have a complete set of facts. I'm sorry that parents treat us as the enemy. I'm much more sorry for the kids caught in between all of this. [/quote] I'm a DP, but I have a question for you. Would it ever be appropriate for anyone to publicly express gratitude for families' understanding about keeping schools closed to keep students and staff safe and to acknowledge how difficult that was for many students and their families?[/quote] Yes and it's happened [/quote] Honestly, I haven't seen it. [/quote] My school email bank doesn't go back past last year but found this online after some googling. "Across most campaigns surveyed, leaders felt that students and parents were incredibly grateful for having a teacher check in on them and ask about their experiences. According to one leader from a higher education local, their greatest moment was “joining with fellow phone bank volunteers to call students who were shocked that a faculty member was actually calling them to check in and see if they were okay, to say they were concerned about and missed them, and to offer assistance in getting them back to their career path.” Beyond surprise and gratification, their phone banking resulted in 18 percent of the targeted students reenrolling. Witnessing parents become more engaged was also a notable moment for many campaigns. As one respondent said, “Hearing from parents how much they appreciated the extra effort in reaching out to make sure this year was off to a good start truly encompasses why we applied for the grant.” Rochester teacher Gia Vallone told us: “A lot of families were shocked that teachers were taking the time out of their summer to do this. They were super grateful. Families just honestly wanted to be heard.” Reporting how the community responded positively to their outreach efforts and how well-attended their events were, one campaign leader told us their enrollment ultimately ended higher than pre-COVID-19, “with families moving to our district because of our engagement with the community.” https://www.aft.org/ae/summer2022/vachon_crawley_boyle [/quote] I think that's a fantastic example, but that didn't happen everywhere. I was a PP who posted that I thought more should have been done to reestablish connections earlier on, and efforts like that show how effective small acts of kindness would have been. Kudos to those who did it. If someone had done that for me, I would have burst into tears with appreciation that someone actually cared. I never felt that anyone did. I had a 2021 grad for whom the pandemic was a disaster in ways we are still dealing with today (with plenty of resources that many families don't have). One reason I take issue with the lack of urgency I've seen is that as kids age out, there's no chance to win back trust, and families like mine who supported closures and limited our activities are left to deal with the problems the closure caused completely on our own. No one cared that my kid missed part of his junior and his entire senior year; no one cares that he's still struggling today. And it's not that I want a personal apology, but there is no accountability for the harm that lost year caused. Maybe it's unfair, but as much as I believe in public schools, it's hard to have faith that future decisions will be made considering students' best interests when I've seen that adults' interests were paramount and that the cost was neither considered when the decisions were made or acknowledged to this day.[/quote]
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