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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote]
                You all need to stop playing Nancy Drew and trying to post frat members names. What if that was your son and he was innocent?

+1
                I really can't believe someone has posted names and pictures. What these guys did was heinous, but right now we have no idea who they were. Stop the witchhunt until there are more facts.

Here's the thing: Guys who were Phi Psi brothers at the time may not have been in the room, but they were "brothers" with the guys who were. This "brotherhood" system is built around a one-for-all, all-for-one attitude. That's supposedly its signal virtue and attraction.

They know these guys, they support these guys. And if the victim's account is correct, this was hardly a one-off: it was apparently a rite of passage for the rapists. (She reported that one of her assailants whom she knew from class didn't want to go through with it, but was told that he had to, "we had to do it too" (or words to that effect)).

So if some of them get identified and publicly shamed, and it turns out they weren't the rapists (at least this time), I'm not that upset about it. Let them explain the actions of their "brothers." If that's hard for them, or creates embarrassment in their current lives or careers, they can blame their "brothers," not Nancy Drew here.

The whole system is about sharing triumph, and revelry, and whatever credit they claim. Let them share the shame as well.

You know, frat parties are full of people, including guys who are not members of that particular frat. William Beebe raped a woman in the Phi Psi house back in the 80s, but he wasn't even a member of that frat. We don't know if the rapists were all members of the frat, and ruining the lives of some guys for just being innocent members of Phi Psi is pretty psycho.

It's not some public place - it's the Phi Psi house, so yes, they are responsible for what goes down there. Back when I was at UVa, they barely even let guys into frat parties unless someone put your name on a list. They had bouncers at the door, and they usually had guys inside guarding the stairs - no one could go upstairs unless it was a brother. They were more likely just looking out for their personal belongings since the brothers live at the house, but I hope they were keeping an eye out for all kinds of trouble. The brothers there are at least guilty of looking the other way.

When were you at UVA? [/quote]

I'm the original "here's the thing" poster.  I agree with 19:52--that's what it was like when I was at UVA in the 80s.  My assumption was not that they were keeping an eye out for trouble--it was that they didn't want outsiders in on what was going on upstairs.  No problem going upstairs if you were a woman who was attractive, drunk, or preferably both.

The victim here said she was taken upstairs by a brother, and that one of the guys who didn't want to go through with it was told by one of the watching (non-participating) guys that he had to, they had all done it.  That's not outsiders.  That's brothers and pledges.  Sounds like a pledge rite of passage.  If true, that makes the fraternity guilty of rape.  [/quote]

I was there in the late 90s and it was the same then as well. [/quote]

Holy crap.  Well, you could have saved Jackie a lot of trouble if you spoke up about that in the late 90s.  How about reporting what you know now to UVA and the police?  There's no statute of limitations, so be a good citizen and go report it.[/quote]

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