Reply to Changes to grading for all MCPS high school students

Forum Index » Montgomery County Public Schools (MCPS)

Reply to "Changes to grading for all MCPS high school students"

Subject:

Emoticons





More smilies

Text Color: Font: Close Marks

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]How about a rule where teachers and admin need to respond to parents within three days.  We have teachers and admin who clearly read the messages and don’t respond.  How about teachers needing to consistently post assignments online so parents know what’s going on.   How about teachers grade within a week so kids know how they are doing?   We have teachers who still have not graded or posted in a month.   Not ok.  Kids can only be successful if teachers also put in the effort. [/quote]

Most teachers are putting in the effort.  But that effort requires time.  We’ve done this math multiple times but here it is again: 
150 students x 5min an assignment =750mins / 60mins in an hour = 12.5 hours .  Thats the total time to grade one assignment.  If a teacher got one class period free per day let’s say 47mins x 5 days =235 mins /60 =3.9 hours.  That’s how much time they had in their work week to potentially grade. There other 8.6 hours comes from their personal life.[/quote]

Out of seven teachers, three are putting in effort. Getting a month behind on grading and not responding to parents is not ok. [/quote]

Thank those three. They gave up their weekends and evenings for you.

The other four are giving you what they are paid for.[/quote]

Some, yes, some no. It’s their job.  Not ok to not grade.  As of today still no grades posted for the past month.  [/quote]

I’m a DP, but I’m happy to repeat the math for you:

I have 150 students. A writing assignment can take 15 minutes to grade. That’s 37.5 hours of grading. I get approximately 3.5 hours a week of time to get my work done.

And that’s just one assignment. Just one. That doesn’t include emails I need to respond to, reports I have to update, plans I have to revise.

So literally half my job has to be done on my own time. Over 30 hours a week.

So… SHOULD this be my job?

[/quote]

How do you think your students will improve without written feedback? I get that it takes time, but isn’t this a huge part of learning and the job?[/quote]

I am a middle school teacher.  My students do not read the feedback.  They look at their grade and come up to me and say 'why did I get a B/C?'  I ask them about looking at the feedback and they say nope.  [/quote]

As parents, we are going in and reading it.  And, if that many kids are struggling, maybe you need to take some more time to reinforce the concepts they are struggling with. [/quote]

Yep, keep blaming the teacher.  At what point does the student have any accountability.  [/quote]

“Please read my feedback and if you have additional questions, we can meet at x time.”

The teacher mentioned middle schoolers. She needs to train them in the way she wants to behave. You get tweens to be accountable by telling and holding them what the standards are. 
[/quote]

I know that it is difficult to believe, so I will ask it again, what time during the day do I have to meet with 150 middle schoolers to go over their feedback?  I don't have office hours.  If I am not teaching a class, I am in a meeting or planning or grading.  If I open up time to meet individually with students, what should I not do?  Plan or grade?  Oh, you want me to be like the PP who works 70 hours a week.  I am not going to do that.  And you can continue to assume that I am a bad teacher, but this is a job.  Until MCPS can give me the appropriate time to do my job, things won't get done.  The only reason the public school system is not failing is because teachers are giving up their lives to hold it together.  And for what?  For parents to still not value what we do.  I will say it again.  Please fight for teachers to have the time to implement this new grading policy with fidelity.  Demand MCPS gives us time to do this.

[/quote]

If the idea that you would meet with a kid before school, at lunch, or after school is so unfathomable to you, you are worse than I thought. My children are in high school and fortunately we have yet to encounter a teacher who is so extreme. [/quote]

DP here.

I’m genuinely curious. How do you think the teacher above is going to meet with 150 students individually?

Let’s say she meets with 2 students before school each day, 2 at her lunch, and 3 after school. That’s 7 a day she can meet with if she gives up any and all available time she has. (And that’s assuming that time wasn’t already taken up by other requirements.) She can meet with 35 students a week. It’ll take her 5 weeks to meet with all 150 and that’s by giving up ALL the time she has.

Did you think this through, PP?[/quote]

Did you read what I wrote? My kids have always had teachers who meet with students who ask for it. Do you really think all 150 students are trying to meet with the teacher outside of class? Did you think through the assumptions in your math? How many kids do you think are going to ask to meet outside of class? Do you think every meeting is one-on-one. Do you even know any high schoolers? You need to post that goblin math to excuse lame teacher like the one above who posted. [/quote]

Your rudeness is beyond unnecessary. You are responding to a teacher who has over 7 hours of meeting time A WEEK for students. I am available before and after school every day. You even said yourself that you have "always had teachers who meet with students who ask for it." So I'm not sure why you need to be rude.

And, as a teacher, I'm very aware of how many students ask for help versus how many don't. That's simply not the point of this subthread. If you follow the conversation, it started with the suggestion that teachers meet individually for verbal feedback. That, as I stated above, simply can't be done.

Once again: no need to be absolutely rude with your "lame teacher" and "goblin math" comments. Some of us are working extremely hard FOR YOU and don't need to be put down at every chance. It gets old, you know?[/quote]

I am responding to the poster who tried to defend you while insulting me. I am perfectly aware of how this subthread started — I helped start it. Do you think it’s helpful for the conversation for the poster to pretend it would take you 5 weeks to meet with each individual students on every individual assignment? I don’t. That poster is not serious and need not be taken seriously. If you are the teacher above who defended your decision not to meet with their students outside of class because it’s just a job, then you are indeed lame. 
[/quote]

In middle school there is no 'outside of class' time to meet with students. This is what we call a toxic relationship.  Teachers tells you they do not have enough time in the day to do their job. Parents say if we just did more or were better organized or gave up our lives we could do it. That one teacher who works over 70 hours a week does, so we should too.   You call us lame when we don't do agree with you.  Keep blaming the teachers.  This is what MCPS wants.  If parents actually wanted things to change they would demand that MCPS gave us time to implement these changes.  [/quote]

It’s not the parents responsibility to advocate, it’s yours and your union.  [/quote]

Sure, sure. And, understanding that, the parents need to accept what they get because that's all they advocated for. The teachers teach the class. Expecting them to then personally hold little Janie/Jonny's hand and remind them eleven times to turn in their work and then stay in at lunch and after school to re-teach the classwork they already taught is unreasonable. You want the teachers to put in the work to teach your kid study skills because you didn't/don't. That's not their responsibility, it's yours. If you insist on offloading that responsibility and putting the burden on the teachers, then yes, you DO have to get involved to figure out how and when, exactly, they're supposed to do all of that on top of their actual job of teaching the curriculum during school hours.

Algebra class is about Algebra, not study skills. You're expected to provide that, just like all other necessary school supplies. Do your job.[/quote]

Problem is not all teachers teach.  In math we e has teachers send links to videos and tell the kids to use them.  Teachers need to teach study skills and time management.   Parents can support.  Instead we are the ones teaching our kids algebra or working ourselves to pay for tutors so our kids can be successful.

My favorite is in English when they show a video or play a recording of the book vs actually reading it.   Kids don’t even get a copy of the book except if we buy it.

As a teacher you advocate for your needs as should your union.  As parents we advocate for our kids.  As an adult stop expecting others to do your job and meet your needs.  [/quote]

This isn’t a battle. As a teacher, I’m not fighting to have my needs met. I’m fighting to provide more for my students. That may look like advocating for more grading time, but that’s so my students can receive more timely feedback. Everything we do is for our students. We are not in competition with you, as your last paragraph suggests. We want to work with you.

And curriculum is not set by individual teachers, so you are going to battle against the wrong people anyway. [/quote]

Again, those are things you, your coworkers and union need to advocate for.  Testify at the BOE, write letters, push the union to handle it.  Stop putting it on parents.  [/quote]

Correct. It's insane that some teachers seem to expect more from parents to improve their work environment rather than the union that they pay dues to and holds far more power and influence with MCPS than parents.[/quote]

Chat, what is a democracy? Why can’t I can’t get top tier service at rock bottom prices without paying any attention?[/quote]

MCPS is not a democracy. It's a fiefdom, and the teachers' union, which is staffed with paid employees and has the leverage of a contractual agreement with MCPS, carries more weight and heft than the all-volunteer MCCPTA, which is the closest thing parents have to a union in MCPS and carries none of the contractual heft and weight that the labor agreements MCEA has with MCPS.[/quote]

Or teachers can keep doing the job they were paid to do and you can keep crying about it anonymously on a message board instead of engaging with the School Board hearings or Central Office outreach. [/quote]

School board and central office ignore parents. Many of us have tried. [/quote]

Correct. Which is the point I tried to make to the teachers that they don't seem to get. MCPS and the BOE can ignore parents because:

1) Individual parents don't carry enough weight
2) There's no legal or financial consequence to ignoring a local PTA or MCCPTA
3) Parents cycle out of schools as their kids make their way through the system, so MCPS/BOE can just wait out pesky parents
4) Parents have to fit their advocacy on top of their full-time jobs, so there isn't always the capacity to do that work (you'd think the folks who are complaining they have to grade school work in their personal time would grasp this but alas....)[/quote]

Do you forget the nightmare that was Open MCPS that advocated all the way to the governor’s office? Parents absolutely have the loudest voice.  Believe me.   We  get written up, put on action plans, demoted, given unfair performance evaluations (via observations), get put in transfer lists, are forced to change subjects or grades we teach with little  notice, are ignored when asked for support….shall I go on?

Look what happened with the Farquhar scandal.  We ARE NOT LISTENED TO. And if we do speak up? Then we pay for it.  So please knock it off. Teachers have way more to lose than you realize.  We are asking for help! And we are getting excuses and pushback and shame. Just like we get from MCPS.  So now maybe we can understand why education is going down a path it might not recover from when no one of any substance is willing to teach anymore.  [/quote]

Re: Open MCPS. At this point, the people who were advocating to reopen schools sooner were right and those who were advocating to remain closed were wrong. So how is that example helpful? And despite that group's efforts, MCPS was one of the school districts in the nation that remained closed the longest. So how is that helping your cause?

In terms of Farquahar: Teachers won that fight! It was anonymous teacher complaints, complete with statements from MCEA, that made its way to the Washington Post and brought Beidleman down! How is that an example that teachers lack power and influence in MCPS???[/quote]

Oh bless your heart.  
Please research before you type.   The only reason why MCPS responded was because an undercover substitute teacher exposed them on a national level! Otherwise there would be a sexual predator in charge of your kids! But I guess that would be the teachers fault too. [/quote]

How does Alexandra Robbins being an undercover substitute teacher and one of the authors of the WaPo stories that brought Beidleman, MCPS and McKnight down negate my point that teachers won that fight?[/quote]

Are you from central? You sure sound like the miscreants from there.  The point is, since it has to be spelled out for you, is that should not have been a fight to begin with if MCPS had effective leadership to address concerns promptly. Which they didn’t. And still do not.  Or did you not read the outside legal reports?  [/quote]

Absolutely agreed that "should not have been a fight to begin with if MCPS had effective leadership to address concerns promptly." But again, that does not negate the fact that the teachers and MCEA won that fight.

When teachers and their unions act, things happen.

Just look at PGCPS where the teacher's union successfully pushed Superintendent Milton House out: https://www.wusa9.com/article/news/education/millard-house-ii-prince-georges-county-maryland-no-confidence-superintendent/65-7f6e3dc7-955b-4f4f-b4ee-ca17088e753b

[QUOTE]Prince George's County Public Schools will soon be without a superintendent, after the school system announced Thursday night that the Board of Education agreed to "separate their employment relationship" with Millard House II.

The superintendent's last day will be June 18, according to PGCPS.

The agreement between House and the Board of Education, comes just over one week after Prince George's County's largest teachers' union issued a vote of no-confidence against the superintendent. [/QUOTE]

Again: In the hierarchy of public education, teachers and their unions have more power and weight than their parent counterparts do.[/quote]

With McKnight gone then, why aren’t things better then? Do you have a citation for how much MCPS has improved since she was outsed too?

I guess I just have a higher standard of expectation for all stakeholders to do what they can to improve things. Not just push it off to the lowest person on the totem pole they can complain to.

I really don’t want to argue anymore.  I hate it that’s all we seem to do.  I mean, you could just coast in education I  assume, but it’s a really stressful and overly demanding job now - when it really doesn’t have to be.  Burnout  is a major reason why we leave. It’s too much. So I said my truth. You can take it or leave it.  But I’m almost out of steam to continue fighting a fight with MCPS. It’s truly a toxic organization at its core, when it honestly could be truly great in full.

[/quote]

I also am not trying to fight you. And though I'm a parent, I know teacher burnout is real.

Which is why I'm pointing my finger at the MCEA. Who is paid, on behalf of teachers, to fight and advocate to improve the system for your wellbeing.

As for whether the system has improved with McKnight, I would argue no! But people need to decide to stop kissing Taylor's butt and say that out loud more consistently in public and TO HIS FACE. Stop saying Taylor is great when MCPS is in the state it's in.[/quote]

Options

	Disable HTML in this message
	Disable BB Code in this message
	Disable smilies in this message

Review message

Search Recent Topics Hottest Topics