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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:

• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership 
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification 
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg

I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.[/quote]

This is easy enough to do. Both save face.

1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation

Done.[/quote]
Zelensky doesn't need to save face. He's done NOTHING to provoke this. Putin has gotten himself so backed into a corner, he will never be able to step away. And if he did, it'd only be a matter of time until he pulled this stunt again. When will some of you understand you CANNOT appease someone like Putin (or Trump).

The only off-ramp is a fresh pair of underwear for Putin.[/quote]

Zelensky doesn’t need to save face, true, but the sooner peace comes, the better for him.[/quote]
This is what I don’t understand either. He may have internal influences telling him he can’t just capitulate? I am pretty sure there’s no agreement in Ukraine on how to respond to Putin’s demands. 
Denatzification means they need to stop glamorizing ambiguous historical figures like Bandera, for instance.
The only demand they should be sweating about is their territories. [/quote]

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