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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]
From CNN live updates:

US President Joe Biden called Russian President Vladimir Putin a "pure thug" while speaking at a St. Patrick's Day event Thursday.

https://www.cnn.com/europe/live-news/ukraine-russia-putin-news-03-17-22/index.html

Highly undiplomatic... but perfectly true.[/quote]
He also called him a war criminal yesterday. Telling it like it is.[/quote]

[b]Agree that Putin is a blatant war criminal, but Biden is as well[/b]. Voted for Iraq and Afghanistan wars which whether you like it or not were essentially the same
thing Putin is doing — “the regime is [anti-democracy / nazis] and they have [weapons of mass destruction / biolabs]”. Also has been arming Ukrainian nationalists and sent CIA to train them in their battle against Donbas separatists. Armed the Free Syria Army against Assad and many of the weapons ended up in ISIS hands. Supported bloody Libya coup. Not to mention all the drone strikes under Biden and Obama. Prolific, prolific war criminal just like Putin. [b]Both men will burn in hell because there is nothing more shameful than sowing death and destruction during your time on earth[/b].[/quote]

To be fair, all US presidents have overseen foreign military adventures--covert or otherwise--resulting in death and destruction. As a nation, we were founded through violence and we promote our interests abroad with violence. We are also the world's largest arms dealer, not to mention the country with the most armed citizens (but that's a whole other subject). So Biden is just one more in a long line of presidents who have exerted American power through violent means. [/quote]

Yep.  I guess the founding fathers are war criminals, too, and are roasting in hell right now.[/quote]

And so is Abraham Lincoln.

One key difference between Lincoln and Putin is that Putin waited 30 years after Ukraine's separation from Russia to attempt to pull them back into the fold, while Lincoln to action immediately. But that doesn't change the fact that Lincoln has a lot of blood on his hands -- yet we consider him one of our greatest presidents .. perhaps the greatest of all.

It is interesting that some leaders who have attempted to expand their territory are considered evil, while others are heroes. What is the criteria for determining which expansionist leader is a hero and which is a monster?

[/quote]

Catherine the Great conquered that land—Novorossiya. Immediately before that, it wasn’t part of Russia. In Lincoln’s case the enslaver states were not another country. In the case of Putin, Ukraine is a country with an established government, president and people.

Do we consider Lincoln one of our greatest presidents? I thought just Trump did, because he sure talked about Lincoln a lot.

If the [b]US (Bush and Condoleeza Rice) had not said that Ukraine would become part of NATO one day, maybe this war would not have happened[/b]. [/quote]

I agree with your final point. I believe Bush and Rice made a serious mistake indicating that Ukraine could eventually enter NATO. This created fear in Russia, political divisions in Ukraine, and an illusory goal that never really had a serious chance of becoming reality.

We can only speculate, but perhaps Russian internal politics might have evolved in a more benign direction had the West never floated the idea of Ukraine entering NATO. 
[/quote]

Bush, Rice, NATO?  Please.  Putin took the Crimea and started the Donbass mess in 2014 with no major repercussions. The USA and EU let him have it.  The economic sanctions in force today should have been done in 2014.  [/quote]

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