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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Erdogan had a phone call with Putin and these are his 4 demands for a cease fire:

• Ukraine to be neutral, no NATO membership 
• Disarmament
• De-Nazification 
• Zelensky agreeing negotiations on Donbas with Putin

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1504793432052666368?s=20&t=Ehjiem5GqGA2cbUTX-kfdg

I guess no one has the guts to tell the Big Guy he's losing.[/quote]

This is easy enough to do. Both save face.

1 is easy, wouldn’t have happened anyway
2 means no foreign military bases in the country. It can keep its army.
3 can be a meaningless ritual like a decree banning nazi ideology and display or smth
4 is de facto reality, just needs documentation

Done.[/quote]

Russia also wants Ukraine to recognize Crimea as part of Russia, which Ukraine understandably *really* does not want to do.[/quote]

Crimea is gone. Zelensky knows it’s gone.[/quote]

Oh I know it is. And part of the reason is because Crimea was never really part of Ukraine historically. It had been part of the Russian Empire for hundreds of years, until the Turks briefly took it. Then Khrushchev gave it to the Ukrainian SSR. The people in Crimea honestly do consider themselves primarily Russian.

So yeah — that’s not to excuse Putin taking it. No one should be annexing parts of sovereign states. But it’s a bit different in terms of what the people there want than trying to do anything with western Ukraine.[/quote]

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