Reply to Did Ellen Greenberg’s fiancé kill her?

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Here is a study on this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11009059/

1/3 its only 1 fatal cut
85% were wrists or necks
Of the 15% that are stab wounds 79% are on the dorsal

Literally her case is the 1% or less. Making it very very unlikely it was suicide and not a murder. [/quote]

Yes, her suicide was a statistical anomaly. But that doesn’t mean it wasn’t suicide.

I see a lot of people hung up on the original ME ruling, so as a former prosecutor I’ll share some context from my experience.

Ellen’s wounds do fall into a very small percent of total suicides that involved multiple stab wounds, especially in cases with female suicides. It makes sense that a ME would initially think this pattern of wounds suggests homicide rather than suicide. But a ME’s findings must consider the full context of the victim’s situation and the scene of the death. After meeting with law enforcement the ME recognized that the absence of defensive wounds, the absence of any signs of struggle at the scene, the absence of DNA other than Ellen’s on the weapons that caused death - this evidence taken in totality rules out homicide and leaves suicide as the only possible finding, particularly in light of Ellen’s psychological autopsy.

It’s interesting to me that nobody has even mentioned Ellen’s extreme slightness, which is suggestive of a longstanding pattern of mental health issues leading to disordered eating.

The more I think about this case the more it makes me so utterly sad for Ellen. It is clear that nobody closest to her in her life - her fiancé, her parents - was fully supportive of the mental health issues she was struggling with nor did they recognize that she was in crisis, not even her therapist. I have handled numerous cases of suicide in my career and I have firsthand experience of the irrationality of family members who cannot accept the suicide of a loved one. It is especially difficult when they feel - probably rightly so - that they in some way failed the suicided person. Ellen begged her parents for help; her parents refused the help, told her to stand on her feet and manage her life. She was desperate and didn’t believe she could manage her life (because her brain was sick and lying to her) so she ended it instead - and they cannot forgive themselves, so it is easier to point fingers at her fiancé and call him a murderer. It’s Shakespearean level tragic. I have compassion for them but it’s also awful that Sam’s kids will one day see that their dad is being called a murderer and abuser all over the internet by armchairs sleuths who in many cases don’t even bother to examine all the evidence.[/quote]
What do you make of that same ME changing their opinion again, saying in recent years that they no longer believe this was a suicide?[/quote]

Also, he didn’t say he thought it wasn’t suicide, just that the finding should be something other than suicide. Like unknown. Again, due to pressure by the Greenbergs [/quote]

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