Reply to Millennial women are saying no thanks to parenthood

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It’s weird how angry it seems to make some people when a woman chooses not to have children.  Maybe she wanted to but didn’t find the right guy (or didn’t find the right guy in time)?  Maybe she wanted to but was afraid of burdening her theoretical offspring with heritable mental or physical illnesses?  Maybe she hates kids?  Maybe she lives kids but thinks she’d be a terrible mother?

Women aren’t choosing not to have kids AT YOU.  This thread is bonkers.[/quote]

On any individual level, you are right.  But on a social/generational level, it is all our business. Because people with no family and kids will be more reliant on society and our tax dollars.  Maybe it's because I come from a society with a strong emphasis on family.  The expectation is that family takes care of each other. We don't rely on government help or policy.  That attitude makes us, as a family unit, more resilient to the ups and downs of modern life and economic surprises.  So yeah, when I see people freely choose to shun family (cutting off "toxic" family or not having kids when they can), I think it's selfish.  And then when I hear all the people protesting for more government handouts and welfare, I get pretty annoyed.  We are responsible for our own success and security in this life and family is the number one factor in obtaining that security.

Again, caveat about individual circumstances.  But i think it's clear as a whole people are becoming more selfish and focusing more on themselves. [/quote]

People are behaving rationally. We live in a late capitalism where basic living is very expensive, housing  and education expenses are though the rough and wages are stagnant. Wealth is horded at the top. Covid really exposed to me that there is almost no social safety net. No one is going to give a shit about my kids but me and mine. I did not feel resilient during covid. I felt very isolated having two young children at home and almost no resources and still being expected to work like I didn't have children.

I don't blame younger people for deciding they don't want to bring children into this world. That if our society is selfish the most rational choice is to be selfish too.

[/quote]

But my whole point was that family is your safety net. Yes kids are a pain but they grow up to be adults, who hopefully will at least offer emotional support. When I am old and there is covid 100.0, I would rather have kids around to depend on (even if to just talk to), than to be alone. In my mind, the more I am on my own and feel like no one cares a crap about me, the more I want to make sure I have family. I guess we just think differently.[/quote]

My friends are in their 50's / 60's and women friends are way more "helpful" and supportive than children or even husbands. After many having illnesses it's the community you create that is where you get emotional support.

Kids are off to college, living elsewhere, working hard, little leave, raising their own children, etc.

It's not kids.... maybe a sister but never kids. [/quote]

I think it depends on what you are looking for at this stage of life from kids. I agree that if you expect your children to provide you with companionships and daily friendship in your 60s when they are working full time and raising their own kids, you probably will be disappointed. All the women I know who are in their 60s rely on either their spouse or friends for companionship. Sometimes siblings. But not kids, other than the normal family gatherings (which depending on the person could be just holidays or dinner together twice a week, it varies so much). But people aren't leaning on their kids for companionships and that probably right. Their kids truly don't have the time, and need to be working on they own marriages and relationships with their kids.

But I do think the women I know in their 60s who have kids are, on average, more personally fulfilled than those I know without. Even if they don't have the best relationship with their kids. Because they still had the experience of motherhood, and experienced the shift in outlook it gives you. It's like going to college or living abroad -- it is a rich experience. I think we forget this because it's an experience that lasts a long time and that most people partake in, so we kind of take it for granted. But parenthood makes you feel things and understand things and see things that you wouldn't if you never became a parent. And that is why it is worthwhile. It just makes for a richer, fuller life experience.

Now, there are other, less common life experiences that you could have that could also make your life fuller and richer. As I said, you could live abroad. You could pursue the kind of challenging career that kids makes hard, or you could have multiple meaningful careers without the constraints kids put on you. You could devote yourself to a cause. You can have pets. You can renovate your own home. You could climb mountains. There are lots of ways to get a shift in perspective and deepen your understanding of yourself and the world around you. I definitely don't think having kids is required or the only way to live a full life.

But IME it's one of the most accessible, and one of the few that really packs the punch you're craving. I have had the experience of looking at my career from midlife and thinking "is that all there is?" I've never felt that way about parenting. It's just such a full experience. Lots of highs, lots of lows, lots of surprises and challenges to overcome. It's been a pretty good shortcut to meaning and fulfillment, at least for me and a lot of other women I know.*

*I think men don't always get this because they don't always invest in parenting as much even when they have kids, and they aren't always as good at understanding how the small moments that make up parenting add up to something profound. But the men who DO get this largely seem as changed by the experience as women.[/quote]

I love this way of looking at it.[/quote]

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