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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What I don't understand is why people would want a society where mothers are forced to raise children they don't want. Like, that outcome is not good for the children and in turn, society. More poverty, more abuse, more crime, etc. It affects everyone eventually.

And don't give me the whole give them up for adoption excuse. We all know that a fraction of those children actually get adopted, and our foster system is a nightmare. Again, poverty, abuse, crime, etc.

It isn't the child's fault- they didn't choose to be born into such circumstances and they are the ones punished.[/quote]

Should we issue licenses on who can have babies?[/quote]

Again, to your statement "[i]What I don't understand is why people would want a society where mothers are forced to raise children they don't want ... And don't give me the whole give them up for adoption excuse[/i] ".  If you feel this way, then why not allow infanticide by the parents?  Why is killing a new born so horrific and taboo, while killing a fetus is to be protected? Or - are you willing to concede to the "life starts at" argument, with a particular, scientifically established # of weeks as that point in time? Anytime before, not an issue and anytime after this ... murder (or under your proposal, the parents' choice inclduing and up to "X" number of days, weeks, months, or year POST-birth. I mean, if the baby is not wanted by its parents (or specifically by its mama) then by all means, let's kill the darn thing.[/quote]

Thousands of IVF embryos are destroyed each year.  So do you think that's murder or not?

Because how is it different from infanticide?[/quote]

You’ve avoided my question by asking one of your own. To me human life starts at 24 weeks after conception. Prior to that do what you want to your body.  After that, treat that life the same as a newborn. When do YOU think human life starts? Just answer my question please. [/quote]
Ahhh… we’re back to the forced birther red herring of forcing dying women to die for their pregnancies or women with wanted pregnancies to carry a dying or dead pregnancy to term. [/quote]

I see you’ve again avoided my question and are deflecting because you’d don’t like your answer’s consequences. The overwhelming number of abortion have nothing to do with “dying women” or “dead/dying babies”, so just stop with that argument. And believe it or not MOST mothers (and fathers) are willing to die for their children. We see that you obviously are not one of these people (how selfish of you). Obviously, when the physical health of the mother or child are medically in question the laws should (and most do) account for that. I am not arguing it shouldn’t. So let’s get back to the main point:

Just answer my question, when do you believe human life begins?

BTW, I actually believe in the right to decide to end one’s or one’s dependent’s life due to a terminal condition, so even if a born baby was terminally ill, I believe the parents should have the right to pull the plug per se.

Finally, the answer to this question would be applied to all humans regardless of the procreation method (for the poster that’s been talking about IVF). [/quote]

DP.  What about the language in the Missouri bill that appears to make treatment of an ectopic pregnancy illegal?
I'm a mother of 2 little girls.  I would absolutely die for them, without question.  But I was not willing to leave them motherless when I was diagnosed with an ectopic pregnancy.
I have 2 friends who have undergone TFMR.  Both of those pregnancies were very much wanted; in fact, one was the result of IVF.  In both cases, complications arose which impacted the health of both mother and fetus.  Impact to life and health of the mother or baby as a reason for TFMR or resolution of ectopic pregnancies aren't as rare as you seem to think they are, and anti-abortion legislation absolutely DOES have an impact.  Take a look at the case of Savita Halappanivar and other women like her to see what happens when such limits are placed on abortion access.[/quote]

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