Reply to J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny

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Reply to "J.K. Rowling’s post on trans-identity and modern misogyny"

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It's interesting how this debate is only about trans women.  Someone posted earlier upthread that no one cares about trans men.  It all makes sense in terms of men "invading" a female space - even when they present as women, men still feel they have the right to define women in terms that best suit their agenda.  We'd welcome you to the sisterhood with open arms if you weren't so intent on redefining an already occupied space. 
Get your own space!
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Basic TERFing right here. 
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No pp has a good point. Trans men seem totally fine with either, 1) being in a state of transition and being known as a Trans man, 2) using their female anatomy (menstruating/pregnancy) while presenting as a man and functioning as a trans man or 3) being fully transitioned and just being a man

Women are raised and conditioned to not intrusively take over spaces so I think this is women doing what they’re socialize to do and easing into being men. And trans women do what men do, intrusively enter and take over the space without carrying much about what was happening before they got there.
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Just stop.

How many trans people do you know or interact with on a regular basis?

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This is exactly the kind of militant response that is wrong here.  People can support ending discrimination of trans people and advocate for them without having to completely agree with you that they are the same as other women.  They are not.  The experience of a trans woman is not the same as those of us who were born genetically female.  It. just. isn't.    Just because I acknowledge these difference does not mean I do not have compassion or that I do not want trans people to be accepted and safe and loved.

You don't get to tell us to "just stop".  Stop with your thought policing.  You hurt the cause, not help, when you just try to shut down discussion.[/quote]

It was a vile comment - not sure why you are trying to defend it.

And go re-read it - PP isn't advocating for trans people in any way. 
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I'm the person who made the vile comment. I don't understand how it was vile. I extrapolated how boys and girls are conditioned and raised in this country to how, respectively, trans men and trans women have tried to integrate themselves post transition. It really isn't a comment about trans people at all, its a comment about how we raise boys and how we raise girls and how those differences manifest in trans people who, uniquely, travel from one set of norms and expectations to the other. [/quote]

Wow - your generalizations are pretty f-ed up all around.  :shock: 
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You don't think women in American society are raised to be peacemakers and to put their own needs second? And that men are raised to be more confident and assertive and that this has direct advantages in many situations, mostly in the workplace. This is a large acknowledged problem, its why women don't ask for raises. It contributes to the wage gap among other gender inequalities. This is not a controversial observation. Applying it to trans people may be, but the core observation is, IMO, basically taken as fact these days. [/quote]

That is not my experience AT ALL. And certainly not something to take "as fact".  :shock: 
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DP. And with that statement, you demonstrate that you are deeply ignorant and privileged, and have little understanding of violence against women or the history of what women have endured for thousands of years. It's lovely you were raised in a pretty, privileged, sparkly little bubble. That's not true for the rest of the world. [/quote]

As a cis-woman in a male-dominated profession, I've experienced plenty of misogyny in my time. Somehow, despite all of that, I'm able to be inclusive of "people who menstruate". Why is it so challenging for you? Who hurt you? 
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DP. This isn't about being hurt. This is about using my voice as a white cis gender women to advocate for poor and disenfranchised girls and women in this country who's lack of access to feminine hygiene products due to cost and access has health, education and socioeconomic consequences. And I will not trade the elevation of one group for the awareness of another needy group.

The fact that you center this conversation as a US problem also shows your INCREDIBLE privilege. In the US women and girls across the country ARE impacted and held back by their periods and not having adequate help to manage them but WORLDWIDE women suffer TREMENDOUSLY because of this issue. I've said it twice in this thread and not once has it been acknowledged but AGAIN girls in certain places in Africa face an enormous education gap because when they get their periods they are NOT ALLOWED TO GO TO SCHOOL. Therefore men in those areas get 25% more education. That is OPPRESSION OF WOMEN coming from their biological condition. And it needs to be talked about for what it is. [/quote]

Why do you want to exclude ANYONE from that advocacy?

Why don't you want to help ALL "people who menstruate"? Why exclude some?

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I don't want to exclude anyone from advocacy, I want to advocate for their SPECIFIC needs. The needs of trans men, the needs of biologically born women and the needs of trans women. And I want to say, specifically, who's needs I am advocating for so that people understand specifically who is harmed. "People who menstruate" makes it sound like "people who like cheeseburgers". A vague group of people who might fit all walks of life. But women and trans women and trans men all face specific kinds of prejudice and should be advocated for as specific groups.

The restriction of access to feminine hygiene products is not something that oppresses a vague group of people, it is the targeted oppression of WOMEN worldwide. And when you say women, you put a face on it. And that is IMPORTANT. [/quote]

If the target of the oppression is "people who menstruate" then why not advocate for "people who menstruate"?

If you want to be PRECISE...

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