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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]It’s weird how angry it seems to make some people when a woman chooses not to have children.  Maybe she wanted to but didn’t find the right guy (or didn’t find the right guy in time)?  Maybe she wanted to but was afraid of burdening her theoretical offspring with heritable mental or physical illnesses?  Maybe she hates kids?  Maybe she lives kids but thinks she’d be a terrible mother?

Women aren’t choosing not to have kids AT YOU.  This thread is bonkers.[/quote]

On any individual level, you are right.  But on a social/generational level, it is all our business. Because people with no family and kids will be more reliant on society and our tax dollars.  Maybe it's because I come from a society with a strong emphasis on family.  The expectation is that family takes care of each other. We don't rely on government help or policy.  That attitude makes us, as a family unit, more resilient to the ups and downs of modern life and economic surprises.  So yeah, when I see people freely choose to shun family (cutting off "toxic" family or not having kids when they can), I think it's selfish.  And then when I hear all the people protesting for more government handouts and welfare, I get pretty annoyed.  We are responsible for our own success and security in this life and family is the number one factor in obtaining that security.

Again, caveat about individual circumstances.  But i think it's clear as a whole people are becoming more selfish and focusing more on themselves. [/quote]

People are behaving rationally. We live in a late capitalism where basic living is very expensive, housing  and education expenses are though the rough and wages are stagnant. Wealth is horded at the top. Covid really exposed to me that there is almost no social safety net. No one is going to give a shit about my kids but me and mine. I did not feel resilient during covid. I felt very isolated having two young children at home and almost no resources and still being expected to work like I didn't have children.

I don't blame younger people for deciding they don't want to bring children into this world. That if our society is selfish the most rational choice is to be selfish too.

[/quote]

But my whole point was that family is your safety net. Yes kids are a pain but they grow up to be adults, who hopefully will at least offer emotional support. When I am old and there is covid 100.0, I would rather have kids around to depend on (even if to just talk to), than to be alone. In my mind, the more I am on my own and feel like no one cares a crap about me, the more I want to make sure I have family. I guess we just think differently.[/quote]

My friends are in their 50's / 60's and women friends are way more "helpful" and supportive than children or even husbands. After many having illnesses it's the community you create that is where you get emotional support.

Kids are off to college, living elsewhere, working hard, little leave, raising their own children, etc.

It's not kids.... maybe a sister but never kids. [/quote]

Those women in their 50s/60s have raised families, which might make them more likely to value caregiving and community when the nest is empty. I wonder if women who have only ever had to look out for themselves would be as reliable for emotional support. [/quote]

My friends with no children are equally as helpful. I find the most useless are SAHM's who are like, just because I don't work doesn't mean I'm gonna help when you are home/need help/etc. My working friends with and without kids are the most helpful.

Then when SAHM's need help, I've found they lean mostly on their H, who is generally not helpful and they wonder why they are not getting help, but they have spent less time building the community.[/quote]

Well, since you sneer and look down on SAHMs with disdain, no wonder they have no interest in helping you.[/quote]

+1. I don't know any of these unhelpful DHs of SAHMs, btw. The SAHMs I know have plenty of help. [/quote]

I actually don't look down on SAHM's. I get it they think they will be "used" because they are at home and they think we think they are not doing anything. But it's not the case. We were very committed to helping each other, but they had their stuff covered so they felt, they would be used. Their stuff was covered until it wasn't. Everybody makes decision and those decisions are their own. It's not really a big deal.

Every year there is a thread here on DCUM, I'm a stay at home mom and NO I don't want to carpool, or pick your kids up during a snow storm, or have them come home after school instead of aftercare, and &lt;fill in the blank&gt; and I am all for you doing what works for you. Everybody cheers them on ... yea f that, your not their babysitter.

Meanwhile, yes I will pick up your kid, this is my work at home day, yes we can do a playdate if you are working late, yes I can watch your kids after your dad's stroke, yes they can lay on my couch sick on my work at home day, yes I can carpool and yes I now need help getting to my chemo appointments and guess what, I have help. [/quote]

You're getting all your information about SAHM mom here? You don't know any in real life, do you? [/quote]

Exactly right. Her spouse is clearly MIA. [/quote]

Neither MIA nor expected to do it all. [/quote]

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