Reply to Affirmative Action should be income-based, not race-based

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What makes you people so sure your kid would have been next on the list? At the cut line, there are hundreds of applicants who are very close in qualifications. None of them are undeserving but [u]none of them are entitled to a spot[/u] either. There are other schools and if your kid is all you think he/she is, he/she will do well with a degree from any of them. It’s only the parents who can’t imagine life without Harvard or Yale or Princeton or Stanford. [/quote]

Exactly. 
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Nobody ever said they were entitled. But in many cases their grades and scores would have taken them in that direction, but AA policies instead favored lower-scoring blacks. So why are black kids with lower grades ENTITLED? Any why can't the poorer-scoring black kids go to some other school? You people seem to be saying that 3rd tier universities are good enough for poor white Billy from the housing projects, even with his A- average, and yet Daeshanda should go to Ivy with her B+. Why not just turn it around: Let the better student go to the better school, and the so-so student go to the lesser university? 
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As soon as we have a level playing field that'd be fine. But today in 2019 we still have white supremacists proudly marching the streets. We have a POTUS who hesitates to disavow them. We have harsh backlash to BLM. We have people still worshipping Confederate war heros and the flag. We have systematic racism / implicit bias.

We are not ready for that. If a handful of white people have a slightly less optimal outcome? That's a price I'm willing to pay. Sorry, Billy.

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I'm not going to argue with you about the POTUS disavowing the fringe element of white supremacists, since he clearly did that and you in your liberal fog refuse to acknowledge it.

But, to get this straight, you say that you are willing to send all the Billys (poor white kids from the housing projects who, despite their hardships, managed to get all As) to community college or a lesser school because that is a price YOU are willing to pay? Such a liberal. You guys are willing to pay for anything as long as it is not you personally paying the price. So generous.

All I can say is thank god that my parents went to college before AA was in effect. They both had after-school jobs that got that home at MIDNIGHT to help pay the family's bills, and still managed to ace their college admissions tests. I shudder to think how different their lives would have been if they had been shut out of college because Dashanda, who did much worse academically, was seen as deserving a chance - and the whites weren't.[/quote]

I said he HESITATED to disavow. Which was 100% accurate.

Why do you think that every.single.poor.white.kid won't go to college because they are "losing their spots" to URMs? How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are [i]actually[/i] affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him.

I am perfectly fine if my kids go to a "lesser" school (even community college) if that means more URMs can go to an elite college. They will be fine.

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I'm SO SURE you will be fine if you kids, who earned all As, are relegated to community college (you should walk around there.....kids are carrying remedial English books and Alegebra I books), so that Dashanda with her Bs can go to a good university.

P.S  Maybe you should ask your kids if they'd be willing to go community college instead of a good four-year university so Dashanda can take their slots. Maybe they feel differently about your being so willing to sacrifice their futures for your liberal ideals that punish whites.[/quote]

IMO the only downside of community college is not having the quintessential college experience (dorms, parties, etc.), but for jobs, etc. my kids would be fine. In fact, two very successful people in my family (from poor families) both started in community college.

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^^
Plus...still waiting for a reply to this....

[i]"How many Billys do you think there are? How many kids are actually affecting by AA? What is the real-life impact? Not another hypothetical med student that doesn't exist. You'll need to account for all of the rich white kids who scored a tiny bit higher than Billy but also didn't get in. And all of the URMs who did score higher than him. "[/i][/quote]

1) I think you should ask your kids if they are willing to miss the quintessential college experience so that black kids who are much worse students than they can go to a much better school.

2) Stop with the rich kids talk. This is about POOR whites who lose out on a chance for a good life because the Dashandas are favored, despite their superior academic records.

3) As for how many kids are actually affected by AA, about 2/3 of black kids would NOT be admitted if standards were applied equally. So you'd have to know how many black kids are currently in college (maybe close to 2 million), meaning that close to 700,000 whites with superior academics are impacted. [/quote]

1) [b]They probably aren't willing, but in reality they would be fine in the end. It's not a death sentence.

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2) Let's say there are 100 spots for a selective program. Out of that, the target is 20 URM.

And there are 500 applicants (20% acceptance rate) - 400 white/asian + 100 URM

Let's say 80 slots are filled by the top 80 whites/asians, leaving 320 white/asian applicants.

The remaining 20 slots go to the top 20 URMs, leaving 80 applicants.

Some URMs will score well -- let's say 10 would have made the top 100 regardless of race. So then there are only 10 spots that may go to a lower-performing applicant (with AA).

We already know that Billy's scores weren't as good as the top 80 white/asians + 10 URMs. If we didn't have AA he'd still be competing for one of those 10 spots against the remaining 320 whites/asians. Odds still aren't that great -- chances are he's more likely to lose the spot to a better qualified white/asian.

Just because Billy didn't get in doesn't automatically mean he "lost" the spot to a URM. He most likely would have lost it to another better-scoring majority applicant anyway.

Understand?

3) Source? 
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[b]Then it's not a death sentence for the lower-scoring black kids to go to community college, either - and it would be more fair, given that they are the poorer students.
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And you're saying that Billy lost out to better whites and Asians - which shows the flaw of AA policies. Billy is forced to compete against whites, and blacks compete against blacks (with lower standards applied to the latter). If race-based AA policies didn't exist, Billy would compete equally with those of all races, and he would have gotten in.

And I knew you would ask me for my source. If I told you, I'd have to kill you. Let's just say I worked in the admissions field and it was well documented. Without AA, the black population of the most competitive schools would be about 3% rather than the 14% - 15% that universities aim for (and lower their admissions standards to obtain).

The problem often comes about because in order to admit enough black students to reach the 14%, good schools have to lower the standards to such a degree that they risk lowering the overall reputation of the school. It then becomes a compromise situation: should we allow the 3.1 GPA black kids in order to "up" our black numbers, or should eliminate the 3.3 GPA black kids and settle for just a 10% black count?

You'd be surprised what goes on.[/quote]

Having an URM attend a life-changing school is more beneficial in the long-run for the URM community. More role models, more influence. Sorry, Billy.

Of course you can't share a source. BA.  :roll:

And, no, it's absolutely not true that Billy would have automatically gotten in if AA were removed. The chances are that other marginally-better white/asian kids would have taken that spot. It's really just a handful of spots when you look at the whole applicant pool.

And elite colleges admit more than just top test scores. They are looking for a dynamic, interesting, and DIVERSE cohort. Maybe some URMs didn't have great test scores but were great leaders/athletes/musicians. It's not all about the test scores.

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