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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Side note: a foreigner perspective on the 3 kids debate => as a French person I am always struck by how negative Americans are towards people who have 3 children. It is so often portrayed as a crazy, selfish, financially and environmentally irresponsible choice. I think in France we would think the same way about someone who chooses to have 5 or 6 children but 3?? we need some 3 kid families to ensure natural reproductive rate of the population (2.1 given the number of people who don't have kids or only 1).

Not judging. I am actually stopping at 2 myself because I understand it would be too hard for me to afford 3 children while living in the US. But I never thought 3 children would feel impossible. In France with subsidized day care, free education and full day schools you mostly choose your family size based on what seems the best balance in terms of time and love. It is too hard to raise a 3 kids family here.

And to finish my thought: people end up criticizing the 3 kids choice almost as a moral failure. From an outsider's perspective it looks more like a society failure..[/quote]

Oh please.  DC has a relatively low col compared to European capital cities.  There have been articles about how difficult it is for French women to work and get promoted due to the childcare situation.  Having three children is expensive in every developed county.  If anything, housing is expensive and children require bedrooms.  Children do not require two newish cars and activities, which the OP has spent money on. [/quote]

Sorry but you are delusional. I used to live in Paris and can tell you very clearly I could afford 3 kids there and not here. The housing situation is not the issue (except that here people think they need a bedroom per child and 2000sqft to survive and in Paris you would end up thinking it is perfectly fine to be 5 in 800sqft because ll your friends are doing it, but in the end in both cities you tend to spend at least 30% of your income on housing). 
The diffenrece  is 
- daycare : I pay 2500 for 2 kids in daycare here, which is already cheaper than last year when I had to pay 3500$ with one kid in day care and the other in a nanny share (and I had to put the older in day care to avoid losing my spot and making sure the sibling gets in the year after). In France if I get a spot in daycare I would pay ~400 euros per kid until they are 2 (800/1000 euros if they end up in a nanny share) , then free full day PS starting at 2.5 years old. That's a HUGE difference. I cannot afford 3 kids in daycare, period, I am strangled with 2 already.
- aftercare: in France schools stop at 5pm. you don't have the same aftercare costs
- healthcare: no idea how much the extra cost was in France because it was so low i didn't factor it in.
- university: you don't have to save for university, zero, nada. The only schools that you need to pay for (business schools for ex.), the cost is still low enough that you can pay as you go or take non-soul crushing student debts. I cannot afford to help 3 kids with their tuition here so I wont have a third child because I dont want to hurt the chances of the other 2. I would never have to take that factor into account in France.

As for the articles on women in France. I read them. I disagree with your conclusions. I don't think the US is in any way more family friendly or that women's career suffer less. Yes when you have children your career tends to suffer at least temporarily. How can that be surprising? In the US my friends tend to think that it is everything or nothing, I have the high pace lawyer who will never have kids, the business woman who is so adamant not to hurt her career that she never says no and doesn't see her only child and the highly educated mom who feels like she cannot have it all and so prefers to opt out and be a SAHM. In France i think my friends don't worry so much. They work and have 3 kids and yes their careers slows down for 3-4 years and then it goes back up.

I have a very good career, I love my job, i work long hours. Since I had my kids I cannot work as long as other women with no kids (or other men with no kids). I am less flexible. I am tired. I have a great life outside of work i want to get back too. My husband is exactly the same. And our coworkers can see that. We don't get the hottest projects, biggest praise or fast track. But we are fine with that, in 2-3 years when our kids are a bit more independent we will be back into it. Or not if it feels good to be on a slower but enjoyable track. [/quote]

Ok we have the solution. OP should move her family to France  :roll:

Can we get back to the subject please?[/quote]

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