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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]What the article is getting at is that smart people with emotional intelligence go far. Basing that conclusion on Ivy schools is a little reductive however. It's a very outdated metric. There are bright students with a high emotional IQ at all sorts of schools in 2026.

But peer group and good manners do matter of course - as they have since the beginning of time. Not exactly rocket science.  [/quote]
The metric is the concentration of these people.  Far fewer in other schools.[/quote]

Eh. Given admission priorities these days, the Ivy League ain't all that in 2026. For smart + emotional IQ, there are a lot of other schools, as everyone who has toured universities over the past three years has discerned. The Harvard Man is a myth today. Things have changed a lot. [/quote]

Disagree.  Ivy leagues are all test required now.  Of course they have institutional priorities, but they all submit scores.  The majority of other schools are test optional, AND give the same if not more preference to priorities. [/quote]

These tests are meaningless when we all know that the little Larlos of the world studied with tutors for years AND had to take the tests multiple times to achieve their “superior” scores.[/quote]

These tests are the single most valid and predictive indicators of everything from future college performance to likelihood of publishing research that will be cited.  [/quote]

Again, correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the privileged kids who benefit from private tutors and infinite chances end up being privileged adults.

Honestly, the level of discourse in this thread (and the complete lack of understanding of statistics and to be blunt, how the world works) just reinforces the point that the average Ivy admit is NOT the best and the brightest, but just another privileged spawn of striving, prestige obsessed parents who couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag…[/quote]

OMFG

"correlation =/= causation"  is not a substitute for reading comprehension or thinking.

Test scores are not causing these results, tests are MEASURING the thing that is causing these results.

Tests measure cognitive ability and cognitive ability improved outcomes.  It doesn't matter that Larlo has higher cognitive ability because Larlo had the ability to develop their cognitive ability because mommy and daddy invested a crap ton into his human capital, the end result is that Larlo has better cognitive ability.  And, that higher cognitive ability means that Larlo is going to have better lifetime outcomes.

But the population of people with high cognitive ability is not limited to wealthy Larlos.  It also includes the children of immigrant families that believe in education and are willing to make smart investments in their own children.  And a tiny number of kids that are so talented that they would have blossomed in almost any environment.

I understand that some kids have advantages in achieving high cognitive ability because they have parents that are rich or parents that are willing to make sacrifices, but ultimately that is what test scores measure.

[/quote]

You are correct that test scores are indeed measuring “the thing” that causes these results. And that “thing” is PRIVILEGE (be it wealth and/or resources).

The rest of your post is laughable. The fact that Larlo needed to take the test six times to achieve a marginally higher score than Susie achieved the first time proves that he WORSE cognitive ability than she does. I also dispute your premise that these tests even measure cognitive ability in the first place. In the current landscape they ultimately measure a student’s aptitude for… taking these particular tests. Which brings us full circle to privilege.[/quote]

The function of testing has been studied by psychologists since at least WWII.  The amount of research that confirms that standardized training measures cognitive ability is so well established that there is no dissent.  The controversy is around things like nature vs nurture not whether testing is a valid measure of ability.

Despite what Princeton Review wants you to believe, the SAT does a lot more than test how will you can do on the SATs.

I know you desperately want to believe that test score disparities are the result of some privilege but its not, not at the high end.  There, at the high end, it does a pretty good job of measuring ability without regard to wealth or income.  [/quote]

And yet… there IS dissent. Obviously.

Listen, I appreciate that you snowplowed Larlo’s way to a 1580 on his SAT (years of tutoring and it only took him four tries!) and your personal self esteem hinges on everyone else recognizing his genius, BUT - the ONLY aspect of cognitive ability that improved for him was memorization.

That’s not nothing, to be sure, but it certainly has no bearing on his overall reasoning or problem solving abilities. That lower middle class kid who took the SAT without ever once having seen a practice problem and pulled a 1450 is actually much smarter than Larlo. Sorry.[/quote]

No, there is no dissent within psychology.  The fact that YOU disagree does not indicate dissent.  But feel free to cite refereed research indicating that you are correct.

I appreciate that your worldview relies on ignoring the almost unanimous conclusion among psychologists that study intelligence and learning that these tests measure an objective thing that affects lifetime outcomes.  
But this is an anonymous board and your posts sound ideologically driven.
So on the one hand we have almost a century of peer reviewed research and the ENTIRE FIELD OF PSYCHOMETRICS saying that these standardized tests are valid and on the other hand we have [b]your reassurances that the only reason anyone would take that stance is because their Larlo did well on a test.[/b]

If that lower middle class kid that pulled a 1450 was smarter than a Larlo that got a 1590, you would expect the lower middle class kid that got a 1590 to outperform the Larlo that got a 1590; or the Larlo with a 1590 to underperform the lower middle class kid with the 1590.  But the two kids with the same SAT score do almost exactly the same academically regardless of wealth or income.[/quote]

Please post links to all of the studies that have informed your opinion. I’ll read them and explain what they actually mean, as you undoubtedly need some help. The bolded conclusion indicates you lack critical thinking skills and or basic reading comprehension.

[/quote]

Here is a study from opportunity insights that shows that:
1. Students with higher SAT/ACT scores are more likely to have higher college GPAs; and
2. Students from different socioeconomic backgrounds who have comparable SAT/ACT scores receive similar grades in college.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/SAT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

There is actually a discipline within psychology that studies how to measure intellect and learning called psychometrics and you are acting like your opinion is as good as their science.  How is that any better than trump?[/quote]

How can you continue to miss the point so repeatedly and so completely? It’s truly mind-boggling.[/quote]

Why doesn't the paper that the PP linked undermine [b]your basic premise that tests only measure privilege?[/b]

Unless you have a very weird definition privilege.

BTW, I didn't see a link to the study that reached a different conclusion.[/quote]

That was not my basic premise. Again, your reading comprehension and critical thinking skills leave much to be desired.[/quote]

I thought you were going to explain the study [b]ACTUALLY[/b] means to me.
Where is all that enlightenment you promised?

This was what you said at 19:49 on 4/4

[quote]These tests are meaningless when we all know that the little Larlos of the world studied with tutors for years AND had to take the tests multiple times to achieve their “superior” scores.[/quote]

Then you said

[quote]Again, correlation =/= causation.

Yes, the privileged kids who benefit from private tutors and infinite chances end up being privileged adults.[/quote]

[quote]You are correct that test scores are indeed measuring “the thing” that causes these results. And that “thing” is PRIVILEGE (be it wealth and/or resources).[/quote]

[quote]the ONLY aspect of cognitive ability that improved for him was memorization.[/quote]

This is in addition to a bunch of insults.  This is all visible on the chain if you click the "show earlier quotes" button

Then you ask me to link some of the research I am relying on in this post

[quote]Please post links to all of the studies that have informed your opinion. I’ll read them and explain what they actually mean, as you undoubtedly need some help. The bolded conclusion indicates you lack critical thinking skills and or basic reading comprehension.
[/quote]

So I link the opportunity insights study on SAT scores that shows that:
1. Students with higher SAT/ACT scores are more likely to have higher college GPAs; and
2. Students from different socioeconomic backgrounds who have comparable SAT/ACT scores receive similar grades in college.

https://opportunityinsights.org/wp-content/up...AT_ACT_on_Grades.pdf

And you just continue to offer insults rather than "explain the study [b]actually[/b] means" to me

You are just the latest in a long line of envious parents who wants their cake after having already eaten it.  You wanted your kids to maximize fun during childhood and also go to top schools despite bad test scores.  The greatest lesson parents like me teach their kids is deferred gratification, discipline and self control.  The worst thing you have done to your kids is convince them that they deserve things they have not earned.ard.

The fact that you think that test prep takes years shows your ignorance.  The fact that you think taking the test half a dozen times is an effective method of achieving good results is shows your ignorance.  And you are passing that ignorance on to your kids.  And in 20 years they will sit in their cubicle grumbling about how some larlo has stolen the life they deserves by prepping for ta test for years and taking the test half a dozen times.[/quote]

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