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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote] We have been giving ESOL and special education to Italians, Irish and others who immigrated in big numbers in the past too. [/quote]

I'm just responding to this - as a first-gen and an educator.

My family learned English ("off the boat" Italians) in night school and on their own.  It was "sink or swim" through the 1960s.  However, event though we formalized the process, my family didn't have the opportunity NOT to learn b/c nothing was translated for them. So they arrived poor, worked their ass*es off, and learned the language.

[/quote]

So you are a brown person yourself. How can you now judge the Hispanic brown people? If at all anything Italian is the closest language to Spanish.

I think any immigrants are hardworking whether they are brown immigrants from Italy or Mx,  Or white immigrants from Sweden, Or black immigrants from Jamaica.
[/quote]

Italians are not considered brown, and not all of us have olive complexions.

I am not judging; I am stating facts.  My family didn't have it easy coming over.  Once they arrived, they did everything they could to retain their culture w/in the home (and among their family and friends), but outside of the home, they were proud Americans.

You see - there came a point when building resilience and resourcefulness in people was replaced by enabling.  I see it in the school system.  We have created a Me Me nation where many are expecting handouts.  You don't build people up by giving them everything.

Enter through legal avenues.
Learn English.
Work your a** off.
Be a role model for your kids.

Not all people are the same.  I have had many students - majority Hispanic and African - who agree with me.  When you enter a new country, you bend for the country, as it's providing you opportunities you supposedly didn't have in your country of birth, right?  b/c if life was so good back home, why leave?

My family escaped poverty.  My father barely had a home; it was crumbling.  Christmas gits consisted of winter fruits. When he was alive, he had fond memories of Italy despite the obstacles that faced him, but he was proud of his accomplishments in the U. S.  (Mom was luckier in that she was a "middle class" Italian, but the family knew that they could move ahead in the States.)

So the neo-libs can preach it all they want!  You don't speak for all of us.  And that assumption that we're all the same will be a negative force in 2020. [/quote]
Italians were considered brown and were racially targeted by whites a hundred years ago. many still consider Italians brown. Italians are often confused with Syrians, Turks, Persians and even Indians. Now, would you call Persian or Indian white? But they are white. 
 
You see what I am driving at, race is a social construct. A hundred years ago Italians weren’t considered white but today they are. What has changed? Just the social acceptance. The same Applies for Hispanics. Brown is the new white.

The immigrant blue collar Hispanics are struggling just like your uneducated, blue collar parents. Many work very hard and prosper. Some won’t. But that’s like any people. So they are no different than your Italian parents. But what you are not giving is the same benefit of the doubt you readily give your parents. Why not?

[/quote]

We are NO LONGER considered brown.

So yes, I know my history.  Yes, my father, uncle and grandfathers were not served food in diners after a hard day's work b/c they were too brown.  I am not brown. I am a light-skinned Southern Italian.  I check off the white box.  And my father checked off the white box, too, despite his dark complexion, as there's no box for olive-complected, Italian-American.

I just want to make that clear.

Regarding the "benefit of the doubt" comment, I don't give anyone any slack.  If my poor father could make it here, learn English, start up multiple businesses, and love the United States - all w/o translation services and social programs - then why can't others do the same?

You see - when you start to lower your standards for people, you create learned helplessness.  My mother came here young. She was thrown into a public school classroom with no ESOL accommodations.  She sat there, smiled and was polite.  She worked her way through school and ended up with a government job. no college education, just a high school diploma and secretarial school

She helped her own parents learn English.  However, despite my grandfather's rusty English, he had a business that was thriving.

You apparently wish to box all people under one category. Not all immigrants believe in handouts.  Not all immigrants wish to be helpless.

So if I sound like a horrible person to you, so be it.  We have to agree to disagree.

But I'll leave you with this: How can you explain how so many immigrants in past generations "made it" MINUS all the resources available to immigrants of today?   You don't put enough faith in the human spirit, my friend.[/quote]

Bingo.  The culture of low expectations in all its glory.[/quote]

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