Reply to “We hold that Roe and Casey must be overruled," Justice Alito writes in an initial majority draft

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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Do you think this decision would force parents to allow invasive medical care for infants that are born with severe medical problems?  I can see that happening.  If you forced me to give birth to a child I knew had very little chance, could you force me to make that child suffer through surgeries and other interventions after birth?

This is all so messed up.[/quote]
I doubt it. It's well-established that forced-birthers don't give a f** about babies after they are born.[/quote]

No more a fact than if I claimed that abortionists like you don't care if babies live or die.[/quote]

Actually completely different.  An embryo is not a baby.[/quote]

Fine. Abortionists like you can say you're pregnant with an embryo. Women i know say they're pregnant with a baby. [/quote]

I am pro-choice and my BIL was pro-life. We both call our pregnancies “the baby”.  One day, in SIL’s third trimester, BIL & SIL found out that the baby was developing without any brain.  There was no hope that the baby would ever do more than live in a vegetative state for an undetermined amount of time - days, weeks, months, maybe a couple of years at best.  The baby would require around the clock care-giving.  BIL and SIL chose to have an abortion.

People who have abortions sometimes are aborting babies - they are often wanted pregnancies until something goes catastrophically wrong.  BIL and SIL made the best possible choice for them and their future family, which includes 3 more babies that they had after their abortion. Babies that they never would have had but for abortion.

Abortion is pro-life, but it includes not only thinking about whether the baby lives or dies, but also what kind of quality of life the baby and family would have.

[/quote]

It's such a familiar story. SO MANY anti-abortionists actually turn out to believe in choice when they are faced with a terrible situation. Funny how that works.[/quote]

Did SIL have an ultrasound at any point during her pregnancy? This is usually diagnosed very early[/quote]

I am often asked this Q.  It rests on the premise that fetal abnormalities are known by the point of ultrasound and/or amniocentesis - which is absolutely medically wrong, but something we choose to believe as a culture because it would be terrifying to carry a wanted child through an entire pregnancy knowing that you really aren’t “safe” until the baby is actually born.  Anencephaly due to failure of the neural tube to close properly is diagnosed early in pregnancy, but an- or micro-cephaly due to disruption of pregnancy by infectious agent (a virus) is usually not diagnosed until much later in pregnancy.

SIL had excellent medical care throughout pregnancy. The anencephaly was likely due to herpes virus interrupting the development of the baby’s brain in the third trimester.  The vast majority of the cerebellum growth and differentiation happens in the 3rd trimester. The cerebellum produces all the higher order thinking. By contrast, the cerebrum (the brainstem) develops much earlier and controls all the automatic functions of the body.   This baby would have been born with an intact cerebrum but little to no cerebellum, which meant the baby could have survived birth breathing and pooping/peeing and heart beating, but unable to ever move, feed independently or have any meaningful interaction or communication.  The parents chose abortion.

There are a number of viruses in addition to herpes that can cause this kind of catastrophic disruption to fetal development - Zika, Toxoplasmosis (in cat poop), cytomegalovirus, rubella and syphilis.

I want to emphasize that cytomegalovirus, herpes and toxoplasmosis are very common - either in the world around us or already at significant prevalence in adult females who may or may not know they have these viruses laying dormant.  The likelihood of one of these viruses activating and interfering with pregnancy development is extremely low but it’s basically a very low risk that applies to MANY pregnant women who have virtually NO WAY OF PREDICTING OR PREVENTING.

Why am I shouting that?  Because when you take away 3rd trimester abortion for “health” reasons because you think pregnant women are somehow lying about their health issues which are not so serious or should have known earlier (which is what your post implies), you are forcing parents like my BIL and SIL to carry an anencephalic or micro encephalic baby to term and care for it for, perhaps years and years. [/quote]

Not to quibble too much, but you have cerebrum and cerebellum reversed. Cerebrum is really what constitutes the two hemispheres. Cerebellum is the hindbrain.[/quote]

Thank you for the correction - you are right - I have mixed up the names cerebrum and cerebellum, but I am still correct on the broader point I was making - the lower (cerebellum) part of the brain develops earlier in pregnancy and controls autonomic functions and the higher brain which controls higher level thinking does most of the rapid critical development in the last trimester. [/quote]

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