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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]

I read that the Christian crusaders used to also take female slaves after war, and quite often they would be raped and sold. Apparently this was not uncommon at the time. How is Islam different in this regard then? [/quote]

Islam is different from Christianity in this regard because there is a provision in the Quran for raping female captives, but there is no provision in the New Testament for raping captives.

As you'll recall, you tried really hard on the Concubines thread to show that Christianity allows concubinage (even outside of war). You failed because the New Testament never sets up a formal structure of sanctioned concubinage (unlike the Quran) and Christianity basically forbids sex outside of marriage.

Christians aren't supposed to even be waging war, for that matter.

Those Crusaders were doing unChristian things, I don't think you'll hear any disagreement about that. Sort of like IS today .[/quote]

As are those who rape women, wife or concubine. The permission to have sex is not the same as condoning rape. [b]The captives spouses were dead. Many of their relatives might be dead. What would you have done with them? [/quote][/b]

So many alternatives to forcible sex...
- reunite them with their surviving relatives,
   [b]If the people who you are at war with are capturing your women, why would you reunite the women you captured with their relatives unless they agreed to do the same. Warring groups did negotiate the trading of slaves, however.[/b]
- create a legal framework that supports women who need to work, 
[b]    Regardless of their religion, few women worked. Slaves worked and were compensated with food, clothing, shelter.
[/b]- monastery,
   [b]It is unislamic for women to desire a monastic life. Women are encouraged to get married.[/b]
- poor house, 
- a house of worship (theirs or yours) gives them alms, food and housing
   At the time, women left to live alone, even with other women, were at risk.
Basically, anything besides forcing sex on them. [/quote]

There is no Quranic evidence to suggest sex was forced upon them. 
[/quote]

I'm sort of stunned that you won't just let this die. Or that you don't realize how unsatisfactory your answers sound to non-Muslim ears.

OK. I get that we're ruling out convents and women working because God wants women to marry and not work. I don't like it for myself, but I get it.

I don't get the argument about trading slaves. As an argument for keeping women captives as your sex slaves, this falls very far short. Muslim conquests were usually a case of running over towns in North Africa or to the East - often the existing culture was completely vanquished and had no prisoners of their own to trade with. I get that Muslim conquerors often let male slaves take positions of authority. But where does that leave the female slaves?  Better, don't take prisoners and make them sex slaves (women of your right hand) in the first place.

For the rest of your objections to protecting women outside if concubinage, I'm starting to agree with PPs about how the Quran is rooted in 7th century Arabia, and it's your job to keep telling us those social mores are still valid today.

I think you also need to tag as your opinion your statement that the "There is no Quranic evidence to suggest sex was forced upon them. " The word concubine (women of your right hand) says they were required to have sex - otherwise the Quran would have referred to these women simply as "captives."[/quote]

So the poster should be permitted to respond but I am not permitted to? And quite frankly, the reason the answers are not satisfactory to you is because you are looking at the Islamic system from a western perspective. It just won't work.

Again and again, I tell you that the opposing side took prisoners also, except they would rape the women and then sell them afterward. I'm not going to do more research to show you this was fact. You can do your own research.

[/quote]

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