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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I’m a PP (close family members anti vax). Among other things, I think it’s hard to wrap one’s head around the that doing nothing can be more harmful than doing something — particularly when we don’t see the diseases or their consequences in everyday life.

There’s also an element of wanting to spare your infant or child — a literal miracle, more perfect than anything a human could create on their — own from contamination. Humans are fallible and small. Nature, and children as an expression of nature (or God, if you’re the praying type, which many are) have an inherent perfection. So injecting something human-made into this perfection feels wrong, corrupting, to many.

And while I sort of understand — as a parent I too have the impulse to preserve the infant/child’s state of grace— I’ve also lived in countries that don’t have the benefit of vaccinations. I know that while nature is a miracle, it has its own forms of corruption and contamination, which can be swift, merciless, and cruel.

But it’s hard to see this when we are still (mostly) benefiting from herd immunity. [/quote]

I agree with you.  [b]But there is one fact that's often omitted in these discussions. [/b] The overall quality of life, state of nutrition and access to medicine and healthcare and sanitation in many of these places where access to vaccination is also limited. Same was true in first world before the overall advancement in medicine, access to sanitation, antibiotics and many new antiviral medications and supplements.  [/quote]

Because it's not relevant, and you know it's not relevant.

In 1963, measles was infecting 800,000+ people per year in the US, and a vaccine was introduced.

Within 5 years, that was down to 22,000 per year, and still dropping. A 97% drop in a matter of years. Are you saying that this was due to a change in hygiene and nutrition? Why?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32NvAvgC_Yo[/youtube][/quote]

[b]In 1963, most Americans were eating what we’d think of today as a minimally processed, whole food, “organic” diet. [/b]Round up hadn’t been invented yet. Kids played outside every day. We had indoor plumbing and clean water. We had antibiotics. Most kids were raised by their mothers or other caregivers, at home.

And thousands of children still died of childhood diseases.

What’s more, many thousands of kids were born with mental and physical disabilities each year and shuttled off to centralized care facilities, where they lived their shortened, disabled lives largely out of the public eye. It was considered the right thing to do at the time. [/quote]

Roundup isn't the only thing used. DDT insecticide was widely used before, and terrible herbicides like atrazine and paraquat.   Your first statement is more of an opinion.  We had lead pipes and lead paint, medications prescribed to pregnant women that caused birth defects, etc. [b] No doubt a lot of this contributed[/b] to the health problems in young children beyond infections with common diseases. [/quote] 'No doubt" the things that just pass through my untrained and uneducated mind are relevant and make sense, because I and my feelings are the center of the universe. :roll:

Data. Your feelings aren't relevant.[/quote]

Show me the data proving DDT, atrazine and paraquat are 100% safe and amazing for the health of humans.   :lol: [/quote]

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