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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][twitter][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Ok. To some of us this was obvious from the get-go. Now go apologize to Ron DeSantis. [/quote]

+ a billion.

Plus, let's demand some accountability. Time for NYT Editorial Board to resign. All of them.[/quote]

Ha ha. Some of you are really pieces of work. [/quote]

Worried you will lose your job?[/quote]

What?[/quote]

What is your interest in trying to shut down any discussion about where things went wrong? You are awfully defensive and paranoid that we might have to admit mistakes were made. Why is that?[/quote]

My kids go to Catholic school, so they were back in person school in fall 2020.

Some of you are kind of crazy.  [/quote]

Mine too, but I had to move from a batshit crazy place to get that. Had we stayed put the kids would have been out until late spring 2021. That's messed up. There was no reason for that whatsoever. There were some terrible decisions and we should hold people accountable for that. Why not? [/quote]

And you think you get to command the NYT editorial board to resign? Move on. It is 2023. The kids who were hurt the most are the ones who have crazy parents. [/quote]

Why don't you just sit this conversation out if you aren't interested? What harm is it to you if people want to learn where we went wrong and how do to better in the future?[/quote]

Let it go. Let it go. Some of you have lost your minds. Go for a walk or something. [/quote]

You are obsessed with shutting this down. What are you so worried about? Go for a walk yourself if this doesn't interest you. [/quote]

I realize that posting on a message board that the NYT editorial board must resign is crazy. And ineffective. Go run for your school board if you want to make decisions. Instead of posting nonsense here. [/quote]

It's amusing how much this bothers you. Must be hitting close to home. [/quote]

Everyone should be concerned with the nutters running around in 2023 trying to blame people for handling the pandemic in a reasonable, rational way. I’m sorry that the pandemic was hard for you but you’re misdirecting your anger.

[b]The important thing now is addressing educational gaps. Focus on that. [/b]

(And glad you finally care about some of the many educational challenges that have existed for a long time and were magnified by the pandemic.) 
[/quote]

How do you suggest we do that without admitting that there are problems? Why did the closures set kids back? What do you propose we do right now to address the problems in our public schools? [/quote]

Have you ever been in a school? These problems existed before the pandemic. The pandemic just exacerbated them. Glad you are paying attention now. [/quote]

Exactly.

Instead of attacking the people who are actively addressing these issues why don’t you find a way to support them.

Unless you have ulterior (political) motives. 
[/quote]

So you are a teacher, is that why you're hyper defensive?[/quote]

I’m a parent who detests irrational a-holes still attacking our schools/teachers YEARS later. It’s almost as if you don’t want to fix anything at all, just complain about it. [/quote]

At least you admit your bias.[/quote]

Yes, I’m biased against school-hating a-holes. [/quote]

You didn't tolerate the complaining back in 2020 either. Not all of us agree that teachers and admins are beyond reproach.  It's ok to hold their feet to the fire now. They were wrong.[/quote]

OMG, I'm a DP and  you are just gone.  Out there.  You don't want solutions.  You want blood.  Honestly, seek therapy.  This anger won't help anyone.  Not your kids.  Not the school system.  This kind of anger will lead to stupid decisions that make the situation worse.

Our kids need help.  There are already teacher shortages.  We need more, good teachers and parents like you will drive any decent ones out of the system.  We need more funding for schools and more services for our kids.  Channel your energy into that.  Otherwise, you are just a worthless blowhard.[/quote]

I’m touched you’re so worked up. Maybe next time you will do the right thing and advocate for schools to stay open knowing now how awful your emotionally driven, factless opinions got us to where we are. Be the change.[/quote]

You are touched, but not in the way you think.  I am concerned for kids, yes, and make no apologies.  Shouldn't we all be? Why would you think I didn't advocate for it at the time?  I did.

But I am not so far gone in worthless anger that I cannot see that they thing we need RIGHT NOW is to focus on what kids need to move forward.  Blame game is a waste of time, because this whole thing has been tainted by political BS and there is no way we will get honest, meaningful introspection from people on this.

So again, blowhard, what do you propose we do to help kids right now? [/quote]

Again, you can't walk and chew gum at the same time. That's your issue.[/quote]

Again, the blame game isn't going to be productive, so why waste the energy?  Focus the energy on things that will have an impact.

But you just want to rant.  Useless blowhard. That's your issue.[/quote]

You're the one ranting and raving. Blowhard, indeed. [/quote]

DP. Still waiting to hear your proposal to deal with learning gaps. 
[/quote]

Private schools should close down for two years, same as public ones did. That's the best way to close the gap.[/quote]

So you have no real proposals? [/quote]

Dump the school boards and start over. Back to the drawing board. The current people in place who created the problems aren't going to be the ones to fix the mess they created.[/quote]
The mess exists in school districts that were closed for a year and a half and in districts that were largely open after the spring of 2020.[/quote]

So I guess you don't see any problems that need fixing. We'll just keep doing the same thing and get surprised at at the results?[/quote]
Of course there are things that need fixing but they need fixing everywhere, not just in districts that were closed longer three years ago than districts that were not.[/quote]

Well at least you admit things are bad. But 'it's bad everywhere!" isn't really a compelling argument as to why we can't take a close look at public schools.[/quote]

Ok. Schools need fixing. What should we do? [/quote]

I can only speak to my personal experience, but I think that a fundamental sense of community and "we're in this together" was broken during Covid and has not been repaired. I don't think we can really do anything until we fix that. Families, at worst, feel that they were abandoned by a public school system they'd previously believed was one the rare public supports for families (as a form of education, childcare, and community and connection) that would be a constant. Teachers, at worst, feel that families were trying to sacrifice their well being for the sake of babysitting.

Until you can have a frank conversation with your school community about why decisions were made regarding reopening that will address this loss of trust, I think things will stay broken. When families don't feel that the school cares about their kids well being, or the overall well being of the family, they are unlikely to care about things like meeting attendance targets, improving test scores, raising money for extras to support teachers, etc. And when teachers think families don't care about their health or well being, they are unlikely to invest in the kind of community building that makes schools the kind of place families are excited to send their kids. It will always be a battle.

Both sides have points, by the way. I actually think it's a problem that there was never a true airing of grievances and a chance to come together. We just wallpapered over those wounds and "moved on." But as threads like this show, that didn't work so well. You can ask people to pretend everything is fine but you can't make them actually feel fine.[/quote]

Huh? That’s been discussed extensively in most school communities. There can be no consensus when some people are irrational and beating a dead horse will never become productive.

Nobody thinks “everything is fine”. Most people just want to address the real issues in the schools today. 
[/quote]

Why do you think yours is the only experience? I agree 100% with the PP and don't think that there has ever been a truly open discussion about the pandemic and schools. If we are working for the greater good, sacrifice is sometimes required. Healthy relationships require validation and acknowledgment when sacrifices are made. That hasn't happened. 
[/quote]

So here's the thing, PP.  Maybe you are well intentioned.  But let's face it, we can't have these kinds of discussions anymore.  There are people on both sides who will not come to these discussions in good faith.  We live in a "Gotcha!" culture right now.  Any admission of wrong-doing is grounds for destroying the person who made the mistake.  Any discussion of mistakes is fodder for complete rejection of any and all opinions from the other side.

It would be great to be able to look at situations like the pandemic and learn from them, but there are just too many complete jerks out there who don't really care about progress and just want to score points.

So many of us on this thread are saying, over and over, "yes, the pandemic sucked and our kids have suffered."  But we are not interested in the point-tallying and the useless blame-game.  [b]We want experts to focus on: so what should we do NOW to help kids.  What programs are needed.  [/b]And will all of you complaining get behind funding these programs?

I think many on this thread are part of the crowd just arguing to score points and further degrade the public education system.  [/quote]

I have been posting over and over asking this question, but no one will answer it. I just keep getting attacked. Will we get behind funding these programs? [b]WHAT PROGRAMS?  [/b]Seriously.  Please tell me what programs are recommended. Not a rhetorical question. I don't want vouchers, but I'm not in favor of funding programs that don't exist or aren't targeted.

You are right about the lack of good faith from both sides. I remember starting a thread when schools reopened with my ideas for immediate targeted interventions, including community partnerships, to reestablish connections between schools and families, and set everyone on a better path. A few teachers offered informed ideas, but the rest of the posts were either people denying that anything needed fixing or people rehashing school closing decisions.  So frustrating! That was in 2021; sadly, we haven't made much progress. [/quote]

1:1 tutoring w/individual goals & plan for kids performing below grade level

More reading/math specialists to support more small group work & interventions

Find ways to improve attendance

Continued focus on SEL / mental health

Support & trust teachers

Push school board to give teachers more planning time & less admin crap 
[/quote]

We need a novel approach to re-engaging stakeholders. The pandemic experience took its toll on everyone in one way or another, some more than others. The disagreement about school reopening demonstrates our problem that leads to people asking for vouchers - they don't feel they have control over their kids' education, and what's happening now isn't working. Kids are disengaged because they don't see the point, and I'm not sure that SEL is helpful.

Positive involvement and support must be developed through respectful and honest two-way communication. Parents should stop blaming teachers for school closures, but [b]educators should understand that many families did not fare well during the pandemic and are still recovering. [/b]School closures caused many families to struggle, and we are seeing that many adults and students didn't bounce back quickly. Blackmailing parents with statements like, "If you raise this perfectly valid concern, it's your fault that teachers are leaving," helps no one. If schools are cracking down on student absences, are there similar expectations for teacher attendance?  Honestly, "reforms" like making parents take their kids to a doctor every time they get a cold so that their absence can be excused probably isn't going to help anything.

Many parents are disengaged because they feel judged, incompetent, helpless, or overwhelmed with financial, health, time, or other issues. Some of that was because of the pandemic and school closures. As we deal with these issues, it seems that at every turn, more is being demanded of us. When did it become parents' responsibility to spend their limited free time trying to change working conditions for teachers? Why are we shaming parents and students who are disengaged from learning in a system that even teachers say isn't working? It's not healthy to say you get what you get, and if it doesn't work for you, it's totally your fault, not ours. Be my partner, but don't ask questions. It's unsustainable. We should think of small changes that can help parents feel more successful and empower them to participate more in their kids' learning.

People are maxed out. We need to think about these relationships and what are reasonable expectations for each other. [/quote]

Omg. Educators absolutely understand that. They live it every day. They are experiencing it themselves.

Not all parents are going to be engaged. That’s fine. Do what you can. At a minimum, parents should stop trashing schools/teachers. It’s not helpful. [/quote]

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