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[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I just don't understand why people defend hurting children. If your spouse hits you it's intimate partner violence. If another person hits it's assault. But somehow hitting children is okay.

I was spanked as a child. It taught me that hitting children was not okay. I remember seeing a mom spank her kid because he was hitting people at the playground. I guess she didn't connect the dots [/quote]

The purpose of any punishment is to inflict some form of pain or unpleasantness, whether that is deprivation of something enjoyed like a toy, or deprivation of a privilege like watching a show, or it could be a mild sting to your bottom.

Whatever it is, it is an unpleasant consequence that has the intention of deterring a repeat of the same behavior. It normally accompanies instruction or teaching about what is acceptable to do instead.

Parents are allowed and often required to provide such consequences, and they have the legitimate authority as parents to implement them. Children do not have the authority over other people to implement any of these consequences.

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It's an ineffective solution. You dispute the research like a conspiracy theorist dodges logic. So I get there's no arguing with someone who will only "move the goalposts" so to speak.

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What’s your basis for saying it’s ineffective?[/quote]

You don't know how to look up research? Cursory Google or Google scholar search or go on pubmed and just read abstracts if you can't get fulltext.

If you want to say all the research is bunk, that's your opinion, but has the hallmark of how a conspiracy theorist thinks. If you want to cherry pick one study or person you devoutly believe while ignoring all other evidence to the contrary, that's also typical of a conspiracy theorist.
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If there were controlled research, I’d consider it. But unscientific research is not reliable.

I have my own experience to know what’s effective.[/quote]

Why spank when alternative repercussions and management solutions are effective and don't have the potential emotional or physically painful repercussion (and yes, I was spanked, I remember as far back as being spanked at 4 years old how I felt)?

I only need to threaten to take away a beloved toy for my kid to comply. But sure, maybe my kids are easy. But on the flipside, I have a family member who adopted a kid with Fetal Alcohol Syndrome who acts out sometimes violently. Guess what? They don't spank either.

I am a nurse who has dealt with confused incapacitated patients, psych patients, drug withdrawal patients, violent patients. Hitting isn't ok in these circumstances even though we have to work with people without full capacity who don't have ability to reason. Should I be allowed to spank a patient if they won't take their medicine or refuse a bed bath or wound dressing change or sneak food they shouldn't eat?

By your logic posted earlier, that's fine? I can spank you on your butt or slap a ruler to your hand one day when you have Alzheimer's and are sundowning and refuse your meds?[/quote]

To your first question, moderate spanking can be more effective, and over much more quickly for everyone, than alternate repercussions. It’s not for everything, certainly.

To your second point, you have a lot of control over patients. But, generally speaking, you are not in a position to impose some sort of punishment on a patient, including those with mental disabilities. You simply do the best you can to work with them and, basically, tolerate them. You’re not in a role where you are [b]teaching them about better behavior and molding their future social interactions.[/b] [/quote]

1. Don't think spanking is more immediately effective if it takes more time to do than it takes me to speak the words "If you don't stop doing xyz I will take your favorite doll". In addition, drawback of spanking is kid feels more angry and emotional and violent. I remember being around 4/5 and turning around to hit either my doll or another kid after being spanked because of how angry I was. I believe the research that spanking produces more tendency to act out after spanking because I can literally remember it. And I'm a shy kid who never got into trouble at school (never spanked at school) but immediately after spanking in my home, I felt violent and wanted to be violent. My sibling also definitely acted out more after spanking - and took it out on me when our parent wasn't looking.

2. You cannot teach about better better behavior and MODELING future social interactions with spanking.  That's illogical. So your argument about why this is ok for parents (and teachers?) literally makes zero sense.

3. New point, but obsevational/correlationsl research is good enough for me when we are talking about potential harms and how kids act out more afterwards, not less. I remember the few times my parent devolved past mundane spanking into whalloping because they were overwhelmed. Won't forget it. Won't ever hit my kids because of it. I'm sorry you ignore 20 years of research and extensive meta-analysis and even yes, whatever couple tiny control studies also show the same thing because you are so keen to use your hands rather than words for discipline.[/quote]

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